Daniel Paronetto (00:00)
We're back from Hood River, we're back with a banger today. We've got Cash Brazola. It never really stuck out to me that it was gonna become something big or blow up as it has. Winging is crazy to me, but para-winging is next level. So I think it opens up a whole new realm and opportunity for people to just maximize time on the water. Powered up, parawing, wave riding, clearing sections, boosting airs.
There's definitely something there. I'm really excited to try in the waves with parawings. Yeah. Kai is a different breed, even for me too, to look at Kai's videos and say it's possible because it's Kai. You were under and then over and under. What does that feel like? Like, oh shit. And then you hit and then it goes kind of psycho. I saw you in the gorge just hocking everything. All right, let's try a backflip. Going into it, I didn't know if...
was gonna loop or rotate at all or what was gonna happen and no, no, too much, too much rotations. Okay, this is doable. We can fully try this and you know, I didn't die. When do you feel β Armstrong's gonna get out with a pair of wingman? There's been a lot of talk and there's been a lot of R &D at least. Is pair winging gonna, you know, exceed winging? It has a good chance.
Daniel Paronetto (01:33)
Welcome to the lab rat for the podcast. My name is Dan and we're back. We're back from hood river. We're back with a banger today. We've got Cash Berzolla. Man, thanks for coming on the podcast.
Cash (01:44)
Yeah, thanks for having me. It's exciting to be here. I mean, I know we're pretty far apart. I think you're in Australia, right? I'm in Maui, so we're kind of close. But yeah, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Daniel Paronetto (01:52)
That's it. We're kind of close.
Yeah, dude, look at some, it was awesome. I mean, I just came back from hood river and saw you there just doing insane things with the power wing. β and I'll put a link to the strike mission video that you guys launched that vlog. β just absolutely, you know, smashing it, doing instant tricks and pushing really power winging to, you know, where very few people have taken it before.
So we'll talk about that. We'll talk about where you see the parowing going, β discipline in general, where the growth will be in your eyes. But before we get into that, let's learn a little bit about you, man. I like to talk about people's history to just understand, you know, all the bag of tricks and tools you're bringing into parowinging. People know who you are, but let's just understand a little bit about where did it all start for you from the beginning.
Cash (02:47)
Yeah, you know. β
Very young age it started for me. I've always been in the water. My parents always had me in the ocean and on some form of board. I believe I started, like most kids, just kind of on the front of β my dad's surfboard in some small waves. And that's kind of, guess, where I fell in love with it. I did a lot of skimboarding when I was really young on a boogie board. And we actually eventually drilled some fin holes into a boogie board. And it was like a twin fin. And I started standing.
on it and I guess it's called Stoogying now, know, stand-up boogie boarding and that's kind where I started. I surfed forever after that. I was always into short boarding and did a lot of the contests here on Maui and just really fell in love with all things the ocean. I was super into stand-up paddling I think around that time as well so we did a lot of SUP surfing and things like that. That's kind of when SUPing was big and know, Kai Lenny and he was out of Jaws and there was a big, you know,
Daniel Paronetto (03:22)
β okay.
Cash (03:49)
tour for it at least and you know there's a lot of racing but I was focused more on the waves and just love to surf and stand a paddle. And then not until you know COVID 2020, island shuts down and there's not really anyone here and not much going on. I think it was the summer of 2020 that I really fell into the realm of foiling.
Daniel Paronetto (04:10)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Cash (04:15)
The Franco Hana, Marley Franco, one of my younger friends here on Maui, who's an absolute ripper and foils and surfs and kites and does kind of just about everything in the water. He taught me along with his mom and dad, Michelle Franco and Jose. And β I just used some of their gear and they showed me their ropes. I believe we started proning, which looking back at it, isn't the easiest way to learn, but.
Daniel Paronetto (04:43)
Yeah.
Cash (04:45)
you know, as Grom's and, β you know, really energized kids, it was kind of this β matter of time before we started, I guess, pumping back out to grab our next waves. And that was a goal. was just something that was so weird and new to us. Like no one was really doing it. You know, there was a handful of guys here and β there wasn't really anyone pushing the level, I guess. It was everyone just kind of holding on for dear life and trying to make it down the wave or make it out to the front of the whitewater and maybe connect the second one. β
Daniel Paronetto (04:52)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Cash (05:16)
So yeah, was probably, yeah, mid-summer 2020, you know, when it was here, which was great. There wasn't, you know, any eyes to watch us flounder around and walk up and down Kana'a, do the lap, you know, walk of shame. But that's where it started. I like the idea and to be honest with you, I got my first setup.
Daniel Paronetto (05:21)
Mm.
Cash (05:38)
because I think my mom wanted me out of the house. She was like, you need to be in the water doing something with wind sports related. And I was like, I don't, I hate this sport. I don't want to do it. It's too much gear. Cause you know, coming from surfing, it's, it's quite a bit of gear, but now looking at it compared to kiting or windsurfing, it's like you're on the water like that. Right. So, but in the day for me, it just felt like there was a lot. was an awkward setup to carry around and
Daniel Paronetto (05:42)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah.
yeah.
Cash (06:04)
β I was trying it, you know, I had an open mind, but at the same time I was pretty, pretty close and still had that surfer mindset of just, you know, I'm gonna surf and maybe wing here and there. And β soon after that, I think within six months of, of, you know, winging and just starting to stay upwind, β I fell into the arms of Armstrong.
Daniel Paronetto (06:14)
Yeah.
Cash (06:29)
you know, under luck and through the Franco Ohana as well as Kevin Collins here on the North Shore of Maui was a rep for them. And they were looking for some, some riders and Grom to get on the team. And yeah, I think it was 2020, 2021 that I, you know, got on the team and just was on the foil program. You know, was stoked to have some gear that was really decent. And it was interesting because, you know, I started on some old
Daniel Paronetto (06:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (06:57)
know, beat up gear that β Michelle and Jose had in their garage, I think, and weren't using and put me on it. And I was, you they were so kind enough to let me use it. And that's how I learned, right? But as soon as I got on that arm front gear, was like a crazy, you know, skyrocket level that just, you know, went. And it kind of baffled me as well. And I was kind of like, like I'm starting to do airs and starting to do, you know, fun stuff.
Daniel Paronetto (07:22)
Mmm.
Cash (07:24)
The big thing for me was I was just having fun. It was just something to do on the water. I was able to go explore the outer reefs, which I hadn't been able to do because we didn't have a jet ski. And you kind of stay pretty.
Daniel Paronetto (07:27)
Sick.
Cash (07:40)
to where you surf, you You're always stuck to kind of where you want to go surf or on the inside. And β I don't know, the wing foiling just gave me that freedom to kind of go explore. And yeah, I was just having fun with my friends and that was the main thing. For me, it's always been whatever β gives you joy in the water and whatever keeps you in the water for as long as you can. And it was just a sport that... β
Daniel Paronetto (07:42)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (08:05)
my level grew really rapidly, which I was stoked on and I was able to get gear from Armstrong and have fun with my friends. So was something new and of course the feeling of flowing is something you can't even explain. It's something magical and different in itself. But it hooks you. Yeah, and I think a lot of people have that mindset, like, oh, it's so dangerous and it's sketchy, but.
Daniel Paronetto (08:22)
It hooks you pretty quickly, doesn't it? Once you get going. Yeah.
Cash (08:30)
It's weird, like once you get over the hump, I think, of that, you know, crashing a lot, it can be really relaxed and be, you know, you can mow the lawn all day and there's no strain from the chop of, you know, a windsurf board or kite board or, you know, surfboard. So it's, once you learn, and if you do it the right way, like learning to, learning proning is a bit difficult and it's pretty, you do a lot of slams and same with winging, like it's pretty full on.
Daniel Paronetto (08:40)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (08:59)
But now, behind a boat or even with the e-foil stuff, it's pretty cool what you can do to learn and get into it in a safer, more gradual manner, I guess. but yeah, that's how I kinda started.
Daniel Paronetto (09:12)
How long did it take you to
go from prone to grabbing a wing and trying winging?
Cash (09:21)
It was almost at the same time. So the first time I went was proning. β
out here at Kahuli Harbor. It was like the end of winter, I think, beginning of summer 2020. so we had we had some swell that was pushing through the harbor and we'd just go in there and catch whitewater. And then, you know, two days later, there'd be wind and no waves. we'd go to Kanawha and just try another form because Marley was always really into kiting. He surfed and kited mainly, I believe, and was slowly getting into this wing thing. And Michelle was like, I need somebody to go with him. in the day, Marley was
just he was able to stay up wind and ripping and I was like, I need to do that. I need to get to his level and he helped push me to get better. There's definitely a lot of walking involved but it was really back and forth. So I'd prone a little bit and then I'd go wing and then prone and then summer came around and it was a lot of proning on the west side as well as winging, was just nuking wind here in the summer as Maui does. β
Daniel Paronetto (10:01)
He
That's always good.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (10:24)
Yeah, I think it was a lot of, and then it started more winging just because it was easier. I live on the North Shore so it wasn't as long of a drive and there's always wind, you know, I kept you in the water.
Daniel Paronetto (10:34)
Yeah. Is that, is
that what really motivated you to kind of take that course towards winging more than proning? just the conditions or like the wing gave you something that was completely unique and you didn't experience it anywhere else.
Cash (10:48)
I think it's a little bit of both. Of course, swinging gave me so much and gave me things that I don't and never will get in surfing. But also, being a product of your environment is something that I think we talk about a lot and a lot of people in the industry will mention. And Maui's so windy. If you grew up here and you don't do a wind sport, in the afternoon, you're either gonna go grind surfing in 25 knot side shore
Daniel Paronetto (11:08)
Mm.
Cash (11:18)
to sit at home. So, winging was definitely a way for me to be in the water twice as much as just having, you know, surfing under my belt. And it was a little bit of both for sure. You know, it gave me a unique feeling and something that was different. So, I don't know. There wasn't one that really stuck out. It was a bit of both for sure.
Daniel Paronetto (11:41)
Hmm. I, and yeah, look, I, had the pleasure to see you guys, β all the Armstrong crew, β in hood river. We didn't get a chance to meet there cause you were in the water doing some freaky shit. And I was like, my God. You know, like, was that your first time on the parrowing in hood river or let's start from the game. Where, was the first time you saw power winging? Like you're that caught your attention.
Cash (12:07)
Yeah, the first time I saw Para-Wing was here on Maui. And I don't know what company it was, but it was a local gentleman, I believe, that started it. And it was like only him. It was only him doing it. And we're like, what is that? That can't be fun. It's trash. And you guys call it trash bagging now, but it really is. It's like you take your Safeway or grocery store bag out there and just hold it out. And basically, that was like, that's so stupid. That can't be fun. That doesn't work.
Daniel Paronetto (12:10)
Mm-hmm.
Yep. It's crazy.
Cash (12:37)
And they were just down-winding, you know, of course. And β that was probably a year ago, I want to say, I first saw it. And there was just no chance. It's like, you know, I'm happy doing what I'm doing. This is one guy that's like experimenting. There's a lot of interesting β people here on Maui who always coming up with interesting stuff. And it's been the birthplace of a lot of cool things in the water sports industry. And it never really stuck out to me that I was going to.
Daniel Paronetto (12:38)
Yep, right.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Cash (13:06)
become something big or blow up as it has. But yeah, it was about a year and a half ago, maybe a year ago that I first saw it just on a downwind run or out in the ocean. I was like, oh, okay, that's
Yeah, so, I mean, first session that I got on it.
We had the arm front team here for the downwind races, the Triple Crown, know, you Pat Alamua, which is a fundraiser, and then you have the big ones, is Maui to Molokai and Molokai to Oahu. So we have an awesome team that comes out and we just had a bunch of people, you know, on Maui, lapping downwind runs. And β my team manager, β Jono, super into β pair winging and had a few. Awesome dude,
Daniel Paronetto (13:28)
Mm-hmm.
I met him. He's cool. Yep.
Cash (13:50)
they were staying down on stable road, you right on the ocean here on Maui and
I was just at the house playing around with it. He's like, Oh yeah, go for it. Go for a run. And, and I think I just hopped on a mid-length and try it for the first time. And he kind of gave me the little low down of how it worked. And I don't know. just like, how hard could it be? You know, we're just going to go sit in and go have fun.
Daniel Paronetto (14:06)
Mmm.
Cash (14:13)
me and Oscar,
popped on him and we went together, which was great because we both got to struggle a bit and laugh at each other. And it was an interesting feeling because every time I got on foil, it was like I'd landed a huge air on a big wave or kicked out of a wave at Jaws. I was so excited and frothed and I would just look back and Oscar was floating around in the background and I got to laugh at him.
We had a few moments like tangle moments. The best one was we way outside of the outer reef at Kana'a and it was getting dark. It was pretty dark and Oscar had just wrapped his lines and it was all, and he was in the water struggling and like, just the funniest thing ever. I don't know why. And I came down next to him and I was just laughing and trying to, just being a punk, a wise ass and giving it to him. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (15:08)
It definitely helps having a mate out there.
Cash (15:10)
Yeah, for sure. he like maybe after 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes, he figured it out and it came out and like right at the end, I don't know what I did, but I dropped it down and did it like the same exact thing and was stuck for like 30 minutes at the end of the day. And he went, he's like, should I go in and grab a wing and bring it out? I was like, no, no, I'm going to figure it out. like figure it out. And like, I swear, part of the parenting experience for me is
Daniel Paronetto (15:16)
Hmm.
Yep.
Cash (15:39)
getting it tangled and then unpangling it and being like, β I'm him, you know, like I'm the guy, I can untangle anything. And that feeling is just something that's, you know, interesting and different. And I haven't really experienced it because I don't kite that much and that don't deal with limes as much as I should. But yeah, we got on it and you know, we were able to get up and not walk the beach. So we were stoked. β
Daniel Paronetto (15:41)
Yep.
Yep.
Cash (16:02)
and play around with it. And there was a little bit of, know, in the first session, you were kind of trying airs and stuff. And I'd seen a lot of the stuff online from some of the European guys doing some freestyle stuff. β yeah, never like really wanted to try it. And it was always just like, you know, one hand, you know, one foot stuff and whatever, but.
Daniel Paronetto (16:06)
Mmm.
Yeah, Marlowe's just going nuts right now with that.
Cash (16:20)
We were just playing around with it. We got some waves, so we were playing around with it in the waves, which is a whole different conversation, and I think it can definitely go somewhere, but I don't know what it will do or how it will go. It'll definitely be a learning experience in itself, but...
Daniel Paronetto (16:24)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Cash (16:37)
Yeah, in the beginning, think before I came to Hood River, I had two or three sessions on the pairway at home, just kind of mowing the lawn and figuring out what it was all about. β You know, trying to learn how to pack it away and throw it back out without having it tangled and spin around and, you know, take me or Oscar out. But β yeah, it interests me and...
Daniel Paronetto (16:49)
Yep.
Cash (16:58)
It's just such a unique thing and I think it's great especially for downwinding because you're able to use such a small board and such a small foil and just pack it away and then you have nothing. It's just like you know a lot of guys here would chip in proning at Hokipa or you've even seen Ridge like rock start at Maliko and do it and it's just like the sketchiest thing you know known known to man you know you're a mile or two miles out and there's some really funny videos of Ridge and one of my buddies here Otis
Daniel Paronetto (17:02)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
That's nuts.
Yeah.
Cash (17:28)
just like you know they're a mile outside of figure Cove or out that a reef and they're playing with each other they just like they fall you know they hit each other and fall and then it makes for a great video but you're like yeah you paddled for 40 minutes after that didn't you so β but it enables that thing for a lot of a lot more people to ride smaller boards smaller foils and be safe about it you know have a backup when you do fall and β
Daniel Paronetto (17:35)
β dude, game over.
Yep.
Cash (17:54)
but enjoy the aspect of downwinding without a paddle and a big board. So you're really able to surf a wave for however long you wanna go. mean, here it's the good one is Moeke around it's eight miles of just, you could carve for eight miles if you want. It's a...
Daniel Paronetto (18:00)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (18:14)
It's pretty awesome and there's not really much pumping involved. It's just you get up with your pair of wings, put it away and go. So I think it opens up a whole new realm and opportunity for people to just enjoy the ocean and really β maximize time on the water and just do it in a different and weird.
form. β I have no idea where it's going to go in the future. I hope it just keeps getting bigger and bigger and I think there's a lot of potential. In terms of waves, I don't know what your thoughts are on it, but β I think there's definitely something there. I haven't played around with it too much, but β yeah, I'm excited to. Winter is around the corner. It's coming in hot, so we'll see how she goes. β Yeah, think Armstrong is going to pump out a few soon or, you know.
Daniel Paronetto (18:54)
Mmm. Yep.
Cash (19:04)
in the future and I just yeah I'm excited to see what you know how they are and and and what comes of it because I think it's a unique β part of the sport for sure.
Daniel Paronetto (19:10)
Yeah.
dude, like you touched on a lot of stuff there that I want to double click on. Number one, just like that initial contact with the pair wing and understanding what was the kind of like the weirdest or hardest thing to just understand about it. Was it just that interaction with lines or what really kind of, you know, gave you a little bit more of a headache to get going on it.
Cash (19:16)
you
Yeah, it's a little bit harder to get going than a wing. Actually, it's probably a lot harder β because you're not really using two hands to get up. I mean, you can front side. For me, I like to cross, so getting up, β I guess it would be toe side. I don't even know the terms. But. β
Daniel Paronetto (19:56)
Yeah, it would be toe side. You can go,
yeah, you go toe side with one hand. Yep.
Cash (19:59)
Yeah, you're
one-handed and there's just not as much low end typically I guess unless it's it's nuking. If it's nuking like you can just put it out there and get pulled up but just like a wing. But for me the hardest you know thing to really wrap my head around was there wasn't really much to pull on like you don't really you can't really pump it you know like a wing a lot of times with if it's a light or you're trying to get up you can kind of pump it and it gives you a little bit of extra get up.
Daniel Paronetto (20:06)
Mm.
Cash (20:27)
The pair wing, not so much. You kinda gotta just, you gotta take the right one. And for me, I haven't really dialed it in. I've seen a lot of people take multiple parawings with them out to wherever they're going. Not just to the beach, but out in the water. β Just because you can pack them away so small doesn't really matter, but.
Daniel Paronetto (20:33)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (20:48)
For me, I've always been either like really under or really lit. You know, I haven't found that middle ground and that's probably just me being, you know, a new coop to the sport and, you know, just trying to figure it out and dialing gear in. β yeah, was just for me, it was that low end. There's not really much to really pull back on. β You know, a smaller canopy and just, yeah, not as much bottom end, but.
Daniel Paronetto (21:08)
Yeah.
Cash (21:13)
Yeah, that was kind of it for me. Also, packing it away is an art in itself. β Guys make it look too easy and it's really like, I mean, you could pack it away as just anyone can pack it away. I think it's more pulling it out and then getting it back out
Daniel Paronetto (21:19)
Yeah.
redeploy
and when you, when you think about like the limitations of the parowing compared to the wing, where do feel that like you can do stuff on the wing that you can't do on the parowing?
Cash (21:44)
It's a good question. β You know, I don't think my level is there yet to really make a claim on it. β I think the pair wing has a lot of unique stuff to it that the wing doesn't.
it's an interesting question because I don't really know. I think the limitations of winging are constantly exceeding our expectations and they keep breaking what we think are the limits. So to say that I put limits on parawinging as well is, I don't know if it's a...
I don't think it's a valid question just because, you know, winging is so new as well and the limits of just winging are being broken, you know, every day or every month. And I'm really interested to see what happens with pair winging in waves. I think there might be a little bit of, you know, a limit to that. I'm not sure how it does, you know, even if my pair winging is in, you know, the pouch thing and I get pounded by, you know,
Daniel Paronetto (22:26)
Mm.
Mm.
Cash (22:50)
a five or 10 foot wave, I don't know what happens. With the wing I do, β but if it's holding me down, I think there might be a little bit of a limitation there, β or you ride without a pouch, and then you can get away from the β pair wing. But I really don't know. β I'm definitely not good enough to...
Daniel Paronetto (23:06)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (23:16)
say the limitations of parowinging at all and I think parowinging especially is just so new that people are going to constantly be breaking what we think is possible and I mean it just goes to show in winging because it happens at winging still. β And I don't know, I really, I got nothing there.
Daniel Paronetto (23:37)
No, look, think it, I think that's fair, man, because I think when you talk about wave riding, I think about what you're doing on waves, which is absolutely ridiculous on the wing and, know, pumping those airs, like clearing those sections. Do you feel it, you know, like it would be possible to do like
Daniel Paronetto (23:56)
powered up, parrowing wave riding, similar to what you're doing on the wing, clearing sections, boosting airs. What's the opportunity? Do think it's possible? Do you think it's doable? What's your take?
Cash (24:09)
β
there's definitely something there, β for sure. And I think in the next year, you're going to see it or start to see it at least. β I think there's definitely a limit, β to clearing sections with a pair of wing. think it's a little bit harder, β than with a wing, but you're still going to see some videos and guys doing it. Maybe not as big and not as far, β but definitely available and doable.
Um,
terms of way riding, think, yeah, there's, it's totally doable. And I think in the next year, you're going to see people from all over the world try different things in terms of clearing sections. I, I don't think you're going to be able to do as big of a stuff as you are with winging just because there's not as
much pull and grunt with a pairwing. β The wing, it's almost like a hang glider or something. If you hit it right, you can go pretty far, just like a windsurfing sail or something like that. Pairwing's a little bit smaller. It doesn't, I guess, maybe hold as much wind β very well, if that's the correct wording there. β
Daniel Paronetto (25:17)
yet.
Mm.
Cash (25:27)
You're definitely going to see videos and people trying it. I don't think it'll be nearly as big and as crazy, but in terms of, you know, laying down a pair of wing, it's totally doable. It's not going to be any, it's not going to be like winging, but it's going to be more like kiting in terms of, know, you're moving your kite a little bit before you turn and trying to adapt to that. So it's definitely possible. And it's going to be interesting. I'm really excited to try.
Daniel Paronetto (25:36)
Mmm.
Cash (25:55)
See what we can do in the waves with parawings and I think it's gonna be fun. There might be some β Comedic videos to be put out for your guys viewing pleasure of me, you know trying to kill myself with the parawings, but There's definitely something there, you know We've been sliding around on them a bit and trying basically just trying everything that I like to do winging β on the pair wing and seeing
Daniel Paronetto (25:58)
Yes, please. Let's see a video.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (26:22)
how it compares, does it work, does it not work, β what's better, what's not. And as of now, I don't have an answer for you of what specifically works and doesn't because I haven't tried it nearly enough. But back to the lay down stuff, it's gonna be more kite style, I think, of course. β But it opens up a whole new thing of like, you're probably gonna see guys.
do more, you know, proning maneuvers with maybe a smaller board or some different setup configuration than winging because you're able to put away your, you know, power source. You're not going to have a wing or a pair of wings that's kind of fluttering by you and, you know, in the way. So you probably see guys on smaller boards and β more prone style in bigger waves for sure. And that's what I'm interested to see is
Daniel Paronetto (26:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (27:18)
you get into an overhead wave and then you're proning. A lot of times you get to a spot or you're winging a spot that isn't necessarily pronable because it's so big. It's hard and it takes a unique person and mindset, I guess, to try and prone a overhead wave in general. Of course, you can grab the whitewater in the inside and pump out.
Daniel Paronetto (27:22)
yet.
Cash (27:45)
but it's a lot of work and it's hard to do and you don't see it as much. β So I think it's gonna be a lot of toe style, but a pair of wings to help you get into it. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (27:53)
Mmm.
It's sketchy though,
man, being on a pair of wing. mean, we saw, you know, um, one of your friends in, in, in Hawaii, going to be, he Kyle, any on the, on the ozone pair wing. And I thought he was going to explode on that thing when he was going down the face. I'm like, if he falls down there, he's cooked. Cause that pair of wing can wrap around you and he hadn't like completely, you know, wadded it up and.
Cash (28:19)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (28:24)
He was just kind of like, the thing was flapping and I'm like, god.
Cash (28:28)
Yeah, Kai's a different breed and it's really hard, know, even for me too, to look at Kai's videos and say it's possible because it's Kai, you know, it's something that is just different and you know, only Kai can do. β I think it's possible. I'd love to give it a shot. β It's, parowinging out there is crazy to me. β Winging is, you know, crazy to me, but parowinging is next level. β
And I'm sure he had it, know, he was, he's got it. It's again, it's Kai, you know, fueled by Taco Bell. You can kind of do anything, right? β But yeah, it's going to be super interesting to see where it goes. And I know there's a lot of stuff out there in the freestyle realm that you're like, what? I didn't think that was possible, but it's just like winging in the early stages, you know, it's, you know, okay, can we backflip it? And I think it's going to be a lot quicker of a project.
Daniel Paronetto (28:59)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Cash (29:24)
progression I guess because a lot of people are going to take stuff from winging that they've already done the trial and error and the guess the R &D and all the testing and fails and take what they know from that and put it into pair winging and even just you know the tricks like you know at beginning of winging you didn't know the back clip was possible until you know Jeffrey Spencer did it or whatever and
Daniel Paronetto (29:31)
Mmm.
Cash (29:49)
Now it's like, okay, we got a pair of wing. We got to backflip it. There's no, you know, like, I don't know if it's possible. You're like, yeah, it's probably possible. We could do it. So, β but even, even like the backflip on the pair of wing, did it for the first time in hood and, β it's sick. It's like a mega loop kiting, which I don't know what it feels like cause I'm not that guy, but you know, when you do it, it's not like a wing where you're kind of holding it and you know, you don't feel the pull of the wing. You kind of feel the pull of the pair of wing the whole time and you kind of go, you know, over it.
Daniel Paronetto (29:52)
Straight up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cash (30:19)
I know you go over the wing when you're wing foiling, it's gonna be a lot of similar but different sort of stuff with the pair wing. β But again, I think it's just gonna skyrocket and the level's gonna go up faster than wing did, because we know a lot more in the, I guess, realm of this topic from all the testing from winging.
Daniel Paronetto (30:19)
Mmm.
Yeah, yeah. You guys,
yeah, you guys have all these tricks that you're going to be bringing in pretty quick. And let's talk about that. Cause I saw you in the gorge, just hocking everything. And I was like, I was just wondering how long you were on the powering for. And it wasn't that long. So you go out, you're like, all right, let's try a back flip. How did that go? Cause you could do a back flip on the pair of wing without kind of looping it, like just holding and like switching your hands on the bar.
But then you can also go full tilt like you did, β and, actually have a powered loop. So explain the powered loop for us. Cause I think it just looks freaking amazing.
Cash (31:16)
Yeah, it's definitely a unique one for sure and it's a fun feeling. β It's just different, you know, we're not used to it. So being able to land one is just something new and exciting. β But for me, in terms of hooking it, β you know, I'm young, the body is β nimble, it's still somewhat flexible. So, you know, I have the advantage to say, hey, I'm just going to try this and give it a shot. And the backflips is pretty doable. β
You know, just hitting at the wind angle, you you're used to winging helps a lot. β but for the most part, I, I think I just, I just kind of sent it and, and, and gave it my best shot. You know, it helps a lot when you see someone else do it. That's why, like, when you see someone who invented a trick or tried trick for the first time, it's pretty mind blowing because they've had no one before them to really, you know, say, Hey, this is doable. β so I saw a few videos, β
Daniel Paronetto (32:12)
Mm.
Cash (32:16)
of the backflip and was like, okay, I think I can do that. And β I don't know, for me, there wasn't really anything. I don't pull a lot, know, it's not like a kite bar where you're pulling a lot on the bar. It felt, I used it more like a wing. So I went into it a lot more wing focused and took a lot of my skills and knowledge from winging and then tried it like that way. And I basically looked at it, I'm just holding, hey, I've got the bar, this is my boom.
Daniel Paronetto (32:27)
Mmm.
Cash (32:44)
from the wing and I'm just gonna try backflip how I would with the wing. Not thinking about the pair wing. And it worked, it worked somewhat. In the beginning I think I got the rotation and landed it kinda on my feet but the pair wing didn't fully, it lost wind. So it didn't hold wind the whole time so it kinda got weird and I landed, I had like the nose on it or something. And then from there you're like,
Daniel Paronetto (33:04)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (33:13)
Okay, this is doable. Like we can fully try this and you know, I didn't die. Everyone's okay. No one panic. β We've done it. And then from there, it's just a little detailed of like, what if I try this a little bit, you know, I hit the bump a little bit more downwind or I open my arms a little bit when I'm upside down or something like that. And just playing with those little things. The front flip, I couldn't tell you. I died trying the front flip. β
Daniel Paronetto (33:29)
Mmm.
The front
flip looks incredible. I don't know, I don't know what's the term, cause I'm not a wakeboarder, but there's a front flip that's a roll and the front flip was kind of like a rotation sideways. And that looks sick.
Cash (33:53)
Yeah,
yeah, there's I honestly I don't know the difference either. It's just anything over the front for me is a little It's not above my pay grade, but it's it's definitely difficult in winging and now After doing so many front flips you can come out of the front flip and stall So you'd like you don't over rotate with the parrying. I got I got nothing. I got no idea for you. I was just like
trying to rotate. didn't, because going into it, I didn't know if the paring was going to loop or rotate at all or what was going to happen. And a lot of the first ones I tried in Hood River were surprisingly I rotated, which I was stoked on. But then after I came out of it, I was like, oh no, oh no, too much, too much rotation. So it was just a lot of like, you know, chest and face planning. Cause after you come out of it, it was harder to, you know, sheet in and pull back like a wing. And I think it's just going to come with time.
Daniel Paronetto (34:26)
Mmm.
Cash (34:50)
A lot of the guys are figuring it out and getting better, but β it's a super fun, fun thing to try. of course, like winging it kind of opens up a little bit for everyone. β You know, you can go psycho and try to kill yourself with it, or you can mow the lawn, or you can go downwind and be super relaxed with it. So it's super unique, just like winging. Like it just has a little bit for everyone. It can either be the most relaxed thing in the world and...
Daniel Paronetto (34:57)
awesome.
Cash (35:20)
just get you on the water or can put yourself in the sport as well. β
Daniel Paronetto (35:25)
Yeah, I think, I think
that's what attracted me to it. And you're right. I think, you know, if you want to sail, you have it. If you want to catch waves, yeah. If you want to go downwind, sure. β and if you want to do tricks and do freestyle, it's there. and it just combines everything, man. You can prone, you can do all these disciplines with the one tool, I guess. β and I, I agree. I don't know where this is going to go, but I saw again, you know, some other guys in hood.
Like Ken Atgate and Johnny Heineken and they were doing completely different style of writing, which, you know, it's really using the power wing and doing these kind of tricks with the power wing that kind of like defy what I thought was possible. So I don't even know what disciplines are coming up, but, β I feel like for you, I'm mostly interested in wave writing because that's what you mean. You're excelling in and you know, every time we see.
You do something crazy. It's on a wave or something like that. β I saw a clip of you in Pia. Hey, I'm just going through your Instagram. Just absolutely eating it on the foil. And I think that was your first wave in Pia. Hey, is that right?
Cash (36:38)
My second, β after that one we called it. Yeah, β that was a session ender. I wasn't hurt or anything, but it was just probably like, you know, my first one I made, which I was super stoked, but it was kind of like, okay, you know, I made one, I'm happy, and I got licked on one. So let's just, we'll do it another day and wait for it. And it's funny, like, you know, a lot of the stuff on social media and Instagram in particular, β always the crashes do better, right?
Daniel Paronetto (37:06)
Mm.
Cash (37:07)
everyone sees the crash, like, was, yeah, that was the one. And I think the crash, the wave was probably a little bigger than the one I made. So it definitely was a little bit more spectacular, but yeah, it was, it's good. I think out there, especially like I'm happy with falling and being fine. You know, it's good to get a little bit worked and know that you can, you know, handle it and yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (37:30)
What does it feel
like, dude? Because for people that are not even exposed to that kind of wave riding, you were under and then over and under. What does that feel like?
Cash (37:41)
Yeah, definitely,
it doesn't, yeah, it sucks. It definitely sucks, but you you train for it and it's something that you're prepared to do. You don't just go out there and it's not like a normal spot. There's a lot of, you know, things that go into it that make it really safe. And it honestly, can, if you do it correctly, it can be the, you know, safer than your local spot. You know, there's a lot of safety out there and there's a lot of stuff that we use that is, you know,
is just has safety in mind. β But in terms of what it feels like it, yeah, to be, you know, completely frank with you, it sucks. I didn't know that I got sucked up and spit out the top like that, or you can see me. I thought it like kind of threw me and I was just doing the typical washing machine thing. β So it wasn't like I was aware of, you know, I was at the top and you know, lot of people I've gotten a lot of questions like, you get a breath there and I was
Daniel Paronetto (38:30)
Mm.
Yeah, yeah.
Cash (38:40)
And a lot, a lot, and every time I say, no, my, my eyes were closed. I was, β you know, in a state of calm. β if that makes sense, which is I think good. β you know, you don't really, mean, in that one, at least I didn't have time to open my eyes and be like, Hey, you know, we're up here. Uh-oh. And then back down. β yeah, it has that like you fall initial impact is pretty, you know, normal for us going fast like that. And then.
Daniel Paronetto (38:48)
Mmm.
Cash (39:08)
for that one it was a little bit of, you know, I felt the wave hit me, kinda just ragdolled me a bit and then straight up and it was just kinda like calm, or like not rough, it was just kinda like, oh, and then up and you just feel like you just get sucked forever, you're like, oh shit, and then you hit and then it goes kinda psycho. That wave wasn't nearly as bad as any of the other wipeouts I've seen out there or any of the wipeouts that I...
Daniel Paronetto (39:18)
Mmm.
That's crazy.
Cash (39:37)
got even on smaller days surfing it. β Just because I kind of went down and hit and kind of blew up and it pushed me down. was more of a north wave too, I believe. So my board got spit into the channel and I popped up relatively β quickly. Depending on the wave out there, it can be much worse. So I definitely, it was lucky and β it wasn't that bad of a wipeout, even though it looked pretty bad.
Daniel Paronetto (39:39)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
You look gnarly,
man. They don't learn it.
Cash (40:05)
Yeah, and that's why I mean back
to the social media thing. It's like always the crashes tend to do better, which you know, I'm fine with which is fun. I love watching crashes and fails too, but β Yeah, so there was one the first wave that Finn Spencer got me β We made and I was stoked and then now and I got a little bit more comfortable and and tried fading a little bit at the top and I think in the beginning that video you kind of see like a little ass and you know me just being stupid and not knowing where I was on the wave and
Daniel Paronetto (40:26)
Mmm.
Cash (40:35)
Getting a little bit. I honestly, think I would have made it. There was a section I came down to the bottom and briefly hit the board on the water and I lost a little bit of speed. Yeah. And then the wave just hit the back of the board a little bit. If I didn't hit that section and the board got sucked down like that, I might've made that wave. I definitely would have been a lot closer, but β I don't know. I just got a little bit too comfortable. It was definitely that fade in the beginning. β always been out there and watched it.
Daniel Paronetto (40:42)
There was a...
Cash (41:04)
I don't know, if you're gonna do it, might as well go for it and try your best. You know, not send the shoulder as much, but I think it was just a mix of I got one and made it, was feeling a little bit comfortable or too comfortable, I guess, and paid for it.
Daniel Paronetto (41:19)
What kind of gear are you on?
Like mast and foil and all that stuff.
Cash (41:23)
Yeah, was all, believe it or not, was all stock stuff. You know, everyone can buy, think, except for the front wing. The front wing was a MA. It was a 475, I believe. But that was the only prototype thing that I had. I think I had a 70 fuse on with a 1035 mass. And my tail was a, I want to say a 140.
Daniel Paronetto (41:37)
Like a 500, 400.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (41:54)
I think, yeah, I was 140. And yeah, think the two posts that I put on Instagram, the difference between the two ways was a degree, like a half degree difference or something in the tailing. So one of the posts is just, I think I titled it like red shim or something, the one I made. So the tail had like a one degree difference in that one that I made. And then the second one, I took it out or something. So I blamed it on that. It definitely wasn't user error or anything.
Daniel Paronetto (41:55)
Nice.
Yeah, damn the shimmies always
fucking us up, isn't it?
Cash (42:25)
that little plastic, you know, degree difference really just got to me. But, but yeah, and then I think the board was just a, what was that board? I think it was just a, one of the older 27 liter, like it was just one of the boards that they had. was like the only, like a small wing board or like a prone board. It was before the surf line and, all of the good stuff that they have now. But yeah, it was a learning experience and this winter we didn't.
Daniel Paronetto (42:29)
Makes it or breaks it.
Cash (42:55)
Really, yeah, I got one day up there that was pretty small and windy and β we got a lot of really good days paddling. We had a long, I think with the eddy swell, there was a lot of no wind days that was just too perfect and if there's guys paddling, you're not gonna tow surf or tow foil. So there wasn't really too many days. Like I said, there was probably one this year that we got. So hopefully this coming winter we can push it a little bit harder and get some crazy stuff. β
Daniel Paronetto (43:02)
Yeah, well...
Cash (43:23)
in some bigger waves, but we'll see. I've never, β I think part of the safety out there, at least for me, is I never put any pressure on myself for big waves. It's always been out of, again, joy and just pushing myself. I've never done it for sponsors or done it for anyone else besides me. β if it comes together, the mindset is if it comes together again, then it comes together, but. β
Daniel Paronetto (43:26)
Mmm.
Cash (43:50)
Yeah, that session out there that we got was a bit of luck and β I guess a bit of not luck. But yeah, we'll see. Maybe we'll pair wing it. You never know. We'll pair wing it this year.
Daniel Paronetto (44:00)
I think so. I'm, and I
was curious about your setup because if you are in such a small foil and a big mast and you know, small board, getting up on the pair wing is going to be a challenge. And then I'm thinking, well, what size pair wing do you need? Is it a big ass pair wing? And then, you know, packing it down will be a challenge. So I think the gear that you need to be able to tow into one of those beasts, β will present some challenges on the pair wing just to get up and get going. But.
I don't know man, you're a wizard, so you'll figure it out.
Cash (44:31)
Yeah, and I think it's fully possible. That setup that I used in that clip, I think I'd probably get up on it or get up with it β with the pair wing, β depending on how windy it is. It needs to be pretty windy. β But I've been pair winging on the new MAs, like the 590 and 490, and those are teeny. They're pretty small. They have a lot of low end, but for the most part, they're pretty small.
Daniel Paronetto (44:44)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cash (45:01)
a much shorter mask so that will definitely hurt β with a longer mask but β you know I think it's fully doable it's gonna be hard to get up to speed and catch one of them for sure but β yeah I don't know if it happens it happens I don't know if Kai did it so there's a way for sure.
Daniel Paronetto (45:22)
As a way, man, think experiencing with the, technique of just wadding it up and packing it down will be crucial. I mean, that's probably one of the hardest things I think, you know, it will take anywhere from five to 10 seconds to pack it down. I mean, five to 10 seconds on that wave. I mean, where do you have to catch it to actually be in a performing spot when it's actually, you know, breaking like.
Cash (45:46)
Yeah, and I think that's
part of the reason like you saw Kai's video wasn't fully packed away. I might have been flapping around a bit. β You just don't have a lot of time and the wind speed just accelerates so fast up those waves where it could be, you know, 15 knots, you know, in the channel or something. But once you get on a wave, it accelerates to maybe even double. β So being able to...
Daniel Paronetto (46:01)
Mmm.
It's
so hard.
Cash (46:11)
pack
that the wing away is, you know, I've had trouble in the gorge packing away a pair of wing at, you know, 25 knots. It was, but you usually go downwind with it and if you're going down a wave, the wind's going up it, it's going to be hard to, you know, go with the wind and pack it up. Cause a lot of times when you pack up a pair of wing, right, you're going downwind. So you lose all tension in the line. So you're able to, you know, grab it. β So it'll be interesting.
Daniel Paronetto (46:18)
Yeah.
you'll catch some speed.
Mm-hmm.
Cash (46:40)
It'd definitely be hard and I think it might take some testing in some smaller conditions first for sure to even think before going out there.
Daniel Paronetto (46:45)
Mmm.
What's the
perfect kind of, β wind direction and conditions for wave riding. So if we think about all of those things, like if you think about the perfect day, what. You know, strength of wind are you talking about? What direction compared to the wave? What do think works best?
Cash (47:05)
You know, I think anything really works. β The only thing that kind of sucks in terms of way riding is straight offshore. If it's super offshore, it's pretty hard. β But what's good about winging and stuff is like, if you can just get onto the wave, you can put the wing down and you're not going to get pulled as much by the wind. Still with...
Daniel Paronetto (47:28)
Mm.
Cash (47:31)
with offshore winds, makes you slow down a lot. Like you feel the difference with offshore. For me, I prefer, you know, a side off wind. Been lucky enough to grow up here on Maui with, you know, almost every day is basically cross off at Ho'kepa β and it's, you know, goes down the right. like cross off going whichever way you want to go. It's probably the best. β
wind direction for winging and honestly probably para winging as well. β Onshore stuff is totally doable but a lot of just to wing you know if you're doing like lay down stuff it definitely depends on wind direction and all that good stuff like β cave Verde is a really good example like it looks really good but that wave is super the wind is super offshore there so
Daniel Paronetto (48:18)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (48:26)
you watch it in a lot of the kite clips, it's hard, it's really hard to kite it because you you typically get pulled out the back of the wave. Same with winging, like those laid down bottom turns more windsurf style is super hard because at the top when you want to pull it up and then kind of come down it, it's harder to kind of get it around because the wind doesn't help you. β Whereas if it was side, you know, side, β it helps a little bit more.
Daniel Paronetto (48:49)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (48:55)
β But those are kind of, it's doable. Like if you're just going to get on a wave and wing it flagged out, probably, you know, side off onshore is your best, best to offshore and then like, you know, side off into whichever direction you're going kind of blows. β It just, it's just hard. You know, the, the wing is a lot of area that gets caught by wind.
Daniel Paronetto (49:09)
Mm-hmm.
You
Cash (49:25)
It just makes it harder, but it's definitely doable. It's for sure doable. β But you see the most progression and the biggest maneuvers probably with side off, maybe a little bit more off. β South Africa was in at J-Bay was really offshore. β So like those big, you know, close out sections that a lot of them I didn't really make, but went huge and tried to make super offshore. So you're able to do.
Daniel Paronetto (49:33)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, right.
Cash (49:52)
You're able to go into it really powered and hit a lip super, you know, you already have wind in your sail. So you know you're good and you can just boost off those for as far as you can. Getting back down in front of the wave and then riding out in front of it is a completely different conversation. It's much harder with that wind, whereas side off or more side, you know, side direction wind is you're able to do those lay down bottom turns and you, lot of times you go into hitting that section.
Daniel Paronetto (50:08)
Mm.
Cash (50:20)
with no wind in your sail. So you hit it and as soon as you hit it, you kind of turn more, you know, upwind and that's when you get caught and you're good. But there's definitely a fine line between two offshore and, you know, two side. Like you really want to split the difference. β So, but I don't know. It all works as long as you're having fun here in the water.
Daniel Paronetto (50:27)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It all works, dude. Well, it all works for you because clearly, β
you're doing something right. β when, when do you feel, β Armstrong is going to get out with a parrowing man?
Cash (50:50)
We're trying, that's for sure.
I don't know. Hopefully soon. There's been a lot of talk and there's been lot of R &D at least. I'm excited. think there's actually a few pros being sent my way soon. β I don't know. I think in terms of Armstrong putting out parawings, they're not the type β to just put something out that they're not 100 % confident in or don't think is the best β wing on the market.
So I think they're probably gonna you know, they're a little bit later than you know F1 do a tone or any of these other brands but I think you know, there's a good reason for that and I can't you know speak for the entire company but from my you know Past and history with them everything that they put out is typically the best You know that they can do and it's been thoroughly tested and you know The material has been tested and everything that goes into it has been thoroughly looked at instead of just being like
Daniel Paronetto (51:25)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Cash (51:54)
We need to put out a pair of them right now. Everyone else is putting out one. We're just going to make one really quick and put it out. β Hopefully soon. I'd really love for them to come out with one soon. But at the same time, I really would like them to come out with a good one that I can rely on and really test the boundaries of parawings. I think it'll be soon. But β it's just like a slow work and R &D process for sure.
Daniel Paronetto (52:23)
Yeah, I'm curious to see what kind of style they're going to be focusing on with, you know, lot of focus on downwind and surf with all the riders. Like, is it going to be a pair wing with maybe some shorter lines and more, you know, inclined for wave riding or, know, what they're going to come up with if they're going to be targeting different disciplines and having multiple models like some brands, or if it's just going to be the one thing that does it all. β yeah, I'm definitely, β kind of waiting for that one to come out. Maybe AWS I we never know.
Cash (52:51)
Yeah.
Yeah, you never know. AWS I is a great place. I've been going there the past, I think, two or three years now and it's like the best event ever. know, there's never, I mean, there's, there's usually some wind, but it's been pretty light the past few years, but it's just so cool to see all the product from all different companies and you get to see a lot of different riders and meet a lot of different people. So it's definitely a unique thing and get to see new stuff. So.
Daniel Paronetto (53:01)
You
Yeah.
Cash (53:19)
Yeah,
hopefully there might be one there and we'll see how it goes. But in terms of your thoughts on what it might be, is it going to be a good upwind high aspect wing or more low end or whatever, I think if they stay on brand, and you never know, they could just flip the script on us. And I know nothing here. just talking.
Daniel Paronetto (53:30)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Bit
balling.
Cash (53:44)
spit balling, but just in terms of what the XPS is, it's just a really good overall, like you can kind of do anything on it. β It's probably gonna be like that. And that's also one of the reasons why I think it's taken a little bit longer to come out than any other brands is because dialing in a wing that can be really good in all aspects of foiling or pair winging or winging is very difficult.
Daniel Paronetto (54:10)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (54:13)
Um, cause you have to find what you like about, you know, a really good race wing that's super high aspect and goes up wind really well. A wave wing that, you know, might float or flag out a little bit different, a pair of wing that packs up better. And there's just a lot of stuff that goes into it. So being able to test everything and see what you like and then put it into your own product definitely takes time. um, but I expect it to be something that is kind of an overall and all around pair wing.
Daniel Paronetto (54:19)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (54:42)
Again, spitball in here, I have no idea. They could come out with five different variations that you could purchase. I don't know.
Daniel Paronetto (54:52)
Yeah, it'll be cool
to see what their approach is. β and I'm sure they're going to have a good point of view on it. I'm just curious to see where they take it. The, and I'm also curious to understand from you, like, what are your thoughts on like how parowinging will continue to grow in terms of who's going to be adopting it? What type of foil or do you think will jump on the parowing next?
Cash (55:13)
It's a good question and it's hard to say. Just being in hood for that week or week and a half, it's crazy. Everyone who was downwinding is getting into it. A lot of people who are stoked on downwinding are really into pair winging. β But I think you're going to see a lot of people who are super stoked on stuff downwinding move over to it. β Just because part of the reason you suck downwind is, I mean,
Daniel Paronetto (55:25)
Hmm.
Cash (55:42)
get a workout of course, because it's hard, but also you want to turn and do stuff in the swell. If you can do that on a smaller foil on a smaller board, there's no reason to really use a bigger one. Everyone wants to be on a smaller one and do a sharper turn or whatever. And of course, think something has a, there's a place for it. And I love to do it still, but even then, like I've moved down to a 65 liter mid-length.
Daniel Paronetto (55:56)
Hmm.
Cash (56:12)
to downwind and I love it because I'm able to turn more. I don't want to use my 8.2 because I can't turn it β and it's just for going straight. β But yeah, there's definitely a place for it and I think a lot of people are going to move to the parawing and not necessarily completely switch over. It can pack into a teeny little box, not even a pouch. You could have a parawing in your quiver and
Daniel Paronetto (56:12)
That's crazy.
Mm.
Yeah.
Cash (56:40)
not know it's there kind of thing. It's super sleek and I think it's great about that. Just another toy to add to the van or the car and do something different. You might show up to the beach or the river or the lake one day and want to do something different. It's super cool or maybe you forgot your pump. I have my pair of wing in the car. just walk out and throw it out. I know. Yeah, and I hate to say it, but I think winging might have made me a little bit lazy.
Daniel Paronetto (56:41)
Mm-hmm.
That's a good thing, you don't have to pump man. Love it.
Cash (57:10)
because β yeah, the whole no pumping thing I just froth out about, like don't need my pump. Yeah, exactly. So it'd be interesting. I think maybe, you you'll see some guys who are into proning transfer over. think it's gonna be really hard sport to learn if you don't wing or do anything of that sort. Going just from proning.
Daniel Paronetto (57:15)
Yeah. Chuck your stash on and you're out and this feels like you're to go a proning.
Mmm.
Cash (57:39)
you know, you might be able to do it. Like if you know how to foil, think you can figure it out pretty easily. Like it's pretty obvious and you can just kind of hold it out there and move it around a bit and it'll pull you if it's windy enough. So, β I don't know. It's going to be super interesting to see who gets into it. Is there going to be people who only pair wing? Is it just going to be an accessory in the quiver that people have or, β yeah, I'm super curious to see, but being in Hood River for, you know, that week and a half is super
Daniel Paronetto (57:49)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (58:08)
Special and eye-opening because just how many people are into it, you know I know I know you mentioned Ken and all those guys that are just if it's not freestyle it's not waves But they're just ripping and doing stuff that even I'm like, I think that's harder than you know front flipping it or something I guess doesn't make any sense Yeah, super technical and they do it on the wing too. But just for me looking at with the pair of wing I'm like, hmm, I don't can't you know the wing I kind of get it where I'm like, okay, I could learn that
Daniel Paronetto (58:11)
man, the froth there was just crazy. β
So technical man, yeah.
Yeah.
Cash (58:36)
But right now with my skill level, the parrowing, I'm just like, whoa, what is that?
Daniel Paronetto (58:40)
I got a question
from a really avid winger that he wants to know from you if pear winging will outgrow winging.
Cash (58:51)
That is a... Yeah, that's an awesome question. I don't know. You know, lot of a lot of, you know, most of my answers here and, you know, I hate to be a horrible guest here, but I don't know. I really don't know. I think winging is huge and it's going to continue to grow. β But is pair winging going to, you know, exceed winging? It's hard to say.
It has a good chance. It does have a good chance just because it takes up less room. It's small. It's easy. β You can bring it everywhere. That's the only thing. It just is a little bit more β easily transportable, I guess. But I don't know. Winging is great in the waves. And the benefit is you get to use the power of the
Daniel Paronetto (59:37)
Mm.
Cash (59:47)
wind to get into swell that you wouldn't normally get into, you know, surfing or any of other sports. But, parowinging also has that ability. Like, you're able to do that, but then you can get rid of the wing if you want. You know, you can just take it away. I think it's a lot harder to go down the line on a parowing if it's fully powered up. As soon as you put it away, you're, you can do basically anything. Like, you want toe foiling.
Daniel Paronetto (59:53)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (1:00:16)
which is awesome. There's a lot of freedom there. But are you going to pack it away every wave and do that? Or do you want to ride sometimes with the power of that pair wing? And I think in those moments when you want to ride with it, you're not going to be able to do the things that you want to do in terms of shooting down the line with a wing. but again, I don't know, we're spit balling here. Who knows? It's going to be interesting. It's going to be really interesting next year or two.
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:27)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (1:00:46)
I'm really excited to see where it goes and who knows maybe you will be able to shoot down the line you know harder than you can winging but yeah I think there's a lot of benefits and and stuff that I love about winging and then there's a lot of benefits that I think and I can't wait to try pair winging so we'll see I don't know how's the pair winging scene down in Oz
Daniel Paronetto (1:01:08)
It's good, man. It's picking up, I guess, like the same thing that you said. think a lot of people are coming in from down-winding. β and especially people that are in that initial phase of paddling, which sucks and they're eating it and they're like, I know how to wing. So the parrowing comes pretty quick if you know how to wing. β and those people are jumping on pretty quick. β I think the next wave will be wingers.
Just people who wing and they kind of capped out on their winging ability. You know, they're not going to do a backflip. They might do some tax or whatever. And they're a little stifled. And the next thing that they might try as a pair of wing and ultimately they might have like a five meter wing and then all the sizes below that might be pair of wings, you know, cause then that's when the powering shines. knows, but it's still, it's like the froth here is not enormous on it.
β it's picking up now. And I think now that people are seeing what's possible with, you know, the videos that you post out, know, people like Marlo putting all the freestyle stuff, then also, downwinders like James Casey and Josh Kuh, like they're, they're having their go on it and, and experimenting with downwinding with it. So it's growing, man. I feel like everybody in my crew loves it because we're frothing on it, but, β
In general terms, everybody's still like, I'm waiting for a better model. I'm waiting for the next version because they are evolving pretty quickly. Um, and that's why I'm asking when Armstrong's coming out with them, because I'm sure that once, you know, a big brand like Armstrong kind of puts it out there, it kind of cements, you know, the discipline as well.
Cash (1:02:50)
Yeah, and
I think there's definitely a point there. And in my opinion, I think a lot of the brands have rushed it and just thrown shit at the wall. You know, they just threw it out there and said, we got one, come buy ours. And, you know, trying to, you know, eat up a bit of the market in terms of the paring side of things. But, yeah, there's some really, some really great ones out there already. And, β yeah, I'm really excited to see what Armstrong comes out with it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:57)
Mmm. Agree.
Hmm.
Cash (1:03:18)
I do believe that they will come out with one. we'll see if it'll be at AWSI. I don't know if it will be, but are you coming? You gonna be there?
Daniel Paronetto (1:03:27)
I'll try. don't know. I don't know if I have money to go back, man. I just came back from the trip and I'm like, should I go back? I mean, it's kind of close. I'll see if maybe I can get, you know, there with some help from, from brands and stuff like that. but yeah, β if I do go there, I'll definitely say hello and check out your stand. It is, but it's worth going. He's not.
Cash (1:03:32)
Yeah.
It is a bit far for you. think, I don't know if Oscar's coming. I don't think Oscar's
gonna come. I think he'll be stuck down there with you, β know, exploiting his, β not his parowing, but his tow-boogie β lifestyle that he's built for himself, so.
Daniel Paronetto (1:03:59)
Yeah. He was, he was frothing
on the power wing in hood, man. We spent a good half hour like, Hey, how do you do this? How do you do that? And he wanted to know how to pack it down properly. β
Cash (1:04:04)
He's... yeah.
Yeah, we've been struggling.
see β he's talking to people without me knowing, which is not good because then he's getting info that I don't have. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:19)
No, yeah, he's, he's got the low down for me
and he needs to practice cause it's literally like every time you pack the pair, I went coming out of the water or packing it into the bag. You always pack it the same way. So, you know, you get that muscle memory of just doing it it just comes pretty quickly. think my quiz quickest pack away was around like five or six seconds. Still takes a while, but that's from like fully powered to fully stowed. β and that was with, β the BRM that is really good to pack away. Cause it just packs away really small. β
Cash (1:04:30)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:50)
But, cash, want to, before we just go, Matt, I just wanted to give you a little bit of space here to kind of, you know, tell us what's coming up next with you. Like what are you working on? What are you excited about? And you know, any projects in the, in the making that we should be aware of.
Cash (1:05:06)
Yeah, you know, there's there's always a project ideas floating around in my head and in the cruise head for sure. I think we've got a few films coming up, you know, shorter, a little bit longer. We'll see. So stick around for those. You know, I can't, you know, say anything on them yet, but just be ready and. Yep, all this is all secret secret sauce, but β it will be known to the public in due time and. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:05:25)
Yep, location or type of video or what you're doing.
Cash (1:05:36)
Yeah, I'm excited to see the Parawing thing is a great, great, awesome and spectacular addition to the whole hydrofoil, I guess, movement you could say. But in terms of my program, yeah, I'm stoked on making really cool content for you guys to see and hopefully inspire more people to really get into foiling and just riding swell in particular. I never thought I'd find myself in Oregon before.
Daniel Paronetto (1:05:46)
Mm.
No.
Cash (1:06:03)
foiling
and I do look at it now as basically surfing a river. β You know, we were were proning into it I think one of the days when it got big. So β yeah, we're just around and the idea is to just really inspire as many people as we can and make cool content for you guys, whether that be you know, parawinging, sub-foiling, proning or winging. β So I think... β
I look forward to the future. think I'm going to try to add a little bit of surfing in there as well, just because that's what I grew up doing and it's I still love to do a lot. So we'll see. think, yeah, that's kind of it. If anything comes up, I'll let you guys know. Just follow the journey. yeah, we're stoked. If you have any questions, just reach out to me or Daniel. Daniel's the boss.
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:32)
Mm-hmm.
Cash (1:06:53)
But yeah, that's kind of it for me. I don't know what your next program is that you're thinking about coming to AWS side, but any interesting people lined up for the rest of the foil rap podcast, who we got.
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:59)
Yep.
Yeah. Yeah,
we have, I want, I want you to help me get β one of the Spencer brothers on. need to talk to them. β but yeah, I got John McCabe coming on. have Kyle Maligro that did a really funny run with his pants down and Rufus. β we were doing that downwind during, and you know, he, he pulled his pants down and I thought it was going to be for a second. He did the whole run with his pants down and I was like, okay.
Cash (1:07:22)
Nice.
Yes, yes, nice.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:32)
Nice. β but
Cash (1:07:33)
Right on.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:33)
yeah, we have a lot of, people from that I met in hood river. β and all the pros were there. So it was cool just to see the reaction of people like coming up and saying, Hey, listen to the podcast. Thanks for that. I'm like, I was not expecting that because I'm in my little bubble down here with my mates and they're like, it's Dan talking about paralingue again. Who cares? But everybody was frothing on it up there and I was like, wow. So it gave me a lot of motivation to come back. And then when you talk about inspiration, man, like
I came back and I had just the blues from being back, β you know, from summer in hood river to winter in Australia. And then I was like, I don't want to do a podcast, man. can't be bothered. then. Messaged you and you were like, yeah, dude, let's do it. So thanks. Cause you got me back on track. You're going to be the first, β podcast that I post after hood river. and everybody's been like, man, you went MIA, like get back on it. So thanks for motivating me, β to, get back on track.
Cash (1:08:29)
I'm glad I can motivate you.
I appreciate you bringing me on and I hope you can rally β and lasso one of the Spencer brothers, bring them down. They're an elusive bunch, but they're super fun to talk to and just full of knowledge. They're doing a lot of R &D and design for Duotone. So β I'm always, you know, maybe a little bit too much, but kind of just like lingering in their driveway. They're right back down. They're right down at the beach. So β I'm a little bit up the mountain, so I'm always out of the way. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:39)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Hmm.
Sick.
Cash (1:08:59)
So in between sessions, I kind of just sit there and hopefully they throw snacks out their window or something. But yeah, they'd be an awesome one to get on. yeah, I appreciate you having me on. yeah, if you want to do another one, let me know. I'm around. as you've seen, I like to talk. But yeah, I appreciate it. And one day I'll make it down to Oz. don't know. Oscar needs to invite me.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:10)
Thanks dude.
Yeah, you will, man. You have
to, there's a lot of amazing wave riding down, spots, just absolutely everything that you could want to do on a, on a foil. could do it down here, but thanks again, dude. We got through it. We had a little bit of a connection issues, but it worked out. Um, thanks for your time. Thanks for everything you do, your stoke level, just your energy and your openness to have a chat made. really appreciate you, um, coming on.
Cash (1:09:45)
course, yeah, sorry, I apologize for the technical difficulties. I hope this one doesn't require too much editing. β I kept the cursing to a minimum. yeah, sorry about that. But yeah, good to see you and good to chat. Until the next one.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:52)
It'll be fine.
Thanks dude.
All right. Keep doing what you're doing, Cash. Thanks for coming on,
Cash (1:10:05)
Thank you sir.
