018_Bowen Dwelle: Why should wingers transition into Parawinging

Season #1 June 29, 2025

In this episode, we dive into Parawinging through the lens of Bowen Dwelle, a seasoned sailor and San Francisco native with decades of experience across various wind-based sports, including windsurfing, kitesurfing, kitefoiling, and wingfoiling. His deep-rooted connection to the bay serves as a backdrop for our discussion, where we explore the foiling scene in San Francisco and the unique riding styles that Parawing is opening up.

Bowen shares his insights on the evolution of Parawing riding styles, highlighting how the sport continues to innovate and adapt, with new techniques and approaches emerging. We also cover essential gear setups, offering practical tips for those interested in exploring Parawinging coming from a winging backgorund.

As the author of the first article on Parawinging for Foiling Magazine, Bowen's expertise is further underscored by his ongoing work on a comprehensive buying guide that details various Parawing models and their distinct riding characteristics.

It was a pleasure to learn more about him and looking forward to more of these chats in person in Hood River!

Episode Transcript

Daniel Paronetto (00:00)
Today we have Bowen Dwelley with us, sailor, windsurfer, kitesurfer, winger, and now parawinger, obviously. All right, I'm a winger. I'm going to get into para winging. Where do I start? You can use your wing gear, but what it means is, so the first day or two were miserable. And then I'll say after that, it was easy. Which sport do you think helped you the most? Was it kite foiling or winging? That's a question. The rigging of that harness line.

What are you trying to aim for? Overpowered versus heavily powered. Can you explain that to us? So I picked up this little diagram that I kind of reused for people. don't know if you can see this. after flying about 10 different pair wings, Flow, Ensys, Ozone, F1 and North and Nash, FlySurfer, 777, Duotone and BRM, one of the things that blew my mind was

Daniel Paronetto (01:07)
to the lab rat for the podcast. My name is Dan and today we have Bowen Dwelley with us. Bowen is a sailor windsurfer, kitesurfer, winger. ⁓ and now para winger, obviously, ⁓ Bowen did one of the first pieces on parawinging for Foley magazine. He's a freelance writer as well. And back in the day team rider for BRM. So.

Cool to see how that is coming back into the picture now with what Greg is doing. So welcome to the podcast, Bowen.

Bowen Dwelle (01:38)
Yeah man, so great to be here dude, thanks for doing this.

Daniel Paronetto (01:42)
Yeah, man, no worries. I remember the first time we kind of started chatting. I think it was for that article in the mag and I was so happy that someone was doing a ride up on it. I'm like, my God, I need to like give you all the information in the world just to let people know what this thing is and how good it is. So thanks for writing that article, by the way. That was awesome.

Bowen Dwelle (02:03)
Yeah, yeah, it's great that you were connected back then, you know, and it's funny, that was only, it came out maybe in February or March and I pitched them that article in maybe November of last year. And for a minute they were like, perrowing-ing, you know, what's that? I said, listen, by the time this comes out, it's definitely going to be a thing, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (02:18)
Too early. Yeah.

Crazy. Oh my God. It took him

a while because yeah, like thinking about where it came, when it came out August, people went nuts. You know, that's still very early. It's only like three, four months for it to land on the magazine. Um, and the progression since then has been so fast, like everything in this sport. It's just going at a lightning speed right now.

Bowen Dwelle (02:48)
Yeah, yeah.

faster even though you know it's one of the things that struck me is like when winging came around there was a lot of skepticism right and and people were like i don't know if that's going to be a thing it's kind of goofy you know and and myself i didn't take up winging for a couple years until you know after it came out basically and ⁓ whereas with the pair wing i don't know there's you know it's just different everything's different but there isn't this like

Daniel Paronetto (03:01)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (03:20)
It's just been adopted more quickly. think, you know, maybe not as certainly not as widely. It's a bit more specialized so far, but the enthusiasm is awesome. I just I'm loving that. Everyone's curious and man, the response from the brands. I mean, I guess it's no surprise, but there's like 15 literally models at least out already.

Daniel Paronetto (03:23)
Yeah.

Hmm.

so fast.

⁓

Yeah. And you've written pretty much all of them. All of, almost all of them, I think. Yeah. There's a very ⁓ kind of active pair winging group on Facebook that you're part of and you are, you're very active in that group as well, posting a lot of information, which is great. And you've gone through the whole gamut, I think of pair wings that, you know, I'm interested in that. I'm always like, all right.

Bowen Dwelle (03:49)
Almost all of them.

Daniel Paronetto (04:11)
Here we go, Bowen has one in his hands. How are you getting these power wings so quickly? What's the secret?

Bowen Dwelle (04:15)
Well,

you're one of these guys too. ⁓

Well, you know, most I just asked nicely, you know, you know, I mean, I got to say that, you know, everyone and I know a lot of people, mean, just I'm not afraid to reach out. And San Francisco, you know, is known as a great sailing scene. You know, I mean, name your sailing discipline.

Daniel Paronetto (04:29)
Just be polite

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (04:48)
Um, it's a great place to sail and world-class sailing, highly competitive sailing, big racing scene. Um, and so, you know, any manufacturer in the business with a, you know, us or a global footprint is going to be familiar with, with San Francisco and with some of the names have come out of here. You know, Johnny and Erica Heineken, right? Daniella Morose. Um, you know, we just had the big, um,

Daniel Paronetto (04:54)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (05:17)
forget the series, but literally just over the weekend, big foil wing, foil race series. ⁓ so yeah, just asking. And, ⁓ you know, I wanted to, I just was fascinated with this new, you know, this new form of the sport, right? This new foil sport and this new power source. And, you know, I just wanted to write about it. So, ⁓ yeah, just kind of kept, you know, been persistent and, ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (05:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (05:47)
Yeah, I have managed to get my hands on quite a few of them. Of course, there's some, you know, there's a guy in Russia that's making them and, you know, like I don't have his, you know, and that sort of thing. Yeah, exactly. But, but yeah, it's been amazing. And just one, you know, one point on that, that's really struck me and, you know, as well as so many other people, it's like almost all of the gear that I've bought over my entire career in board and wind and foil sports has been just like looking at a picture.

Daniel Paronetto (05:54)
Yep. Those are a bit trickier to get, I guess.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (06:17)
Or even

not even seeing a picture, just talking to someone and it's like, yeah, that sounds good. You know, ⁓ like I remember when I bought my first cloud kites from Greg. It's like, there wasn't even a picture. was just, he posted something on like foil forum or whatever it was, you know? And so to have the opportunity to actually compare things back to back has just been.

Daniel Paronetto (06:21)
Yep.

Yep.

Bowen Dwelle (06:44)
Wow, a real privilege and just hugely educational and super fascinating, you know, and to see all the nuances of different designs and things. So yeah, it's been awesome.

Daniel Paronetto (06:54)
Well, it's, it's

super helpful for everyone. think as well, just people who are, you know, they have one parawing and they're wondering how it compares and all that stuff. And it's inevitable to make comparisons, but I guess it's worth saying that all of these pair wings are working. ⁓ and they have strengths and weaknesses as we know, but before we get into a lot of the power wing and stuff, I'm always curious to know about people's backgrounds. think, you know, once we know a little bit more about you, I.

Bowen Dwelle (07:09)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (07:23)
can see parowinging through your lens and understand what you bring into parowinging. So why don't we ⁓ talk about how everything started for you in board sports and just sports in general and how you got into foiling.

Bowen Dwelle (07:28)
cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, man. That's cool. Like parrowing through my eyes. Yeah. ⁓ well, I grew up in San Francisco, literally was born here in the city, ⁓ city by the Bay and a world-class sailing venue. No doubt about it. Right. ⁓ and I learned to sail when I was nine, actually right here in Sausalito.

Daniel Paronetto (07:39)
Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (07:56)
And my parents had like small sailboats. We'd sail in the Bay. Um, my dad tells me about, he saw some ad in a magazine in 79 or 80 or whatever it was for the windsurfer. And I think he flew to Florida or drove to Florida or something and, you know, bought one and brought it back. And so then I learned to windsurf, you know, on a windsurfer, like with a, with the teak booms and the

Daniel Paronetto (08:22)
Wow. Yep.

Bowen Dwelle (08:26)
the dagger board or the center board that you had to pull up and sling over your shoulder. ⁓ and, they, man, they didn't even really plane hardly unless you really, really worked at it. Right. and so from windsurfing, know, I was doing that in my twenties a bit on, you know, like sinker boards and, know, but windsurfing is hard. ⁓ surfing also was in there a little bit, but you know,

Daniel Paronetto (08:48)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (08:55)
Nowadays, San Francisco is a little bit more of a surf town, but when I was a kid, it wasn't. Just surfing wasn't popular. It was cold. I don't know. It wasn't a thing.

Daniel Paronetto (08:58)
Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (09:05)
you know, I mean, Pacific Coast, there's lots of swell, but the beach, the main beach that we have on the west side of the city is directly west facing. So it's a giant shore break, okay, most of the time. And also the prevailing wind most of the year is westerly. So it's shore break with onshore wind, right? So it's just a mess.

And it's foggy, right? And yeah. And so like, you know, especially when I was a kid, I got to tell you when I growing up here, I don't ever remember going to the beach. It just, it's not the, it was always foggy and cold. You know, you'd go at night with a fire and a bottle of whiskey, know, well, you saw it. Yeah, exactly.

Daniel Paronetto (09:33)
Yeah, that's the fog factor.

That sounds nice and some company maybe.

Bowen Dwelle (09:55)
The weather has changed and that is a factor. But also, of course, surfing just became a much, much more popular sport, right? And ⁓ all of that contributes to the fact that nowadays there's a lot of people in the water surfing here, whether it's good or not. And there is a very brief season, like in November, when the wind goes offshore and we get winter swell and it actually can be amazing. Right.

In any case, I didn't grow up as a surfer and I explained surfing to people as like the simplest and most difficult water sport because you have to, I can paddle. I hate, I hate paddling. mean, I just like, I hate it. ⁓ that's what a sail is for, you know? I mean,

Daniel Paronetto (10:33)
Yeah. It's, it is hard.

agree, man. It's, look, if you, if you haven't been brought up that like with that in your life, picking it up, if you're 30 and you're starting to surf, get ready for a wake up call fitness wise, knowledge wise and like even culturally, find surfing very hard for all the reasons that we know, like it's a very crowded and competitive, you know, everybody has to perform in the same spot. So it.

Bowen Dwelle (10:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

crowded.

Daniel Paronetto (11:13)
It takes a little bit of the shine of, you know, being out with people and people being open to being around, you know.

Bowen Dwelle (11:20)
Yeah,

it's a, there's a very specific cultural thing to surfing. mean, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And anyway, so I, but I do have a little bit of that experience. Like I can go out and paddle out and pick waves and get on a wave. And so, you know, I have some of that, but I didn't take to it. I was also, I was sailing and windsurfing and skateboarding. Right. So I had to board sports and snowboarding even. And then, you know, when kiting came around, um, I didn't pick it up immediately. Um,

I was windsurfing, I blew a disc in my back. It took me a few years to recover from that. And then I did take up kiting in, ⁓ like, well, about 20 years ago, you know, ⁓ just under 20 years ago. And, ⁓ and then I got to surf cause I, it was kite surfing and I just picked up a short board, the board that I could never ride surfing. And with a kite, it's amazing, right? Kite surfing is amazing. I mean, you know, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (12:11)
Nice.

It's incredible, It's

sad that the sport itself is a little, like it gets people scared to get on it, but it's such a good sport. it's one of those that's uncomparable as well.

Bowen Dwelle (12:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's, still, of course, amazing. And, know, that really began to lead me into kind of my like middle-aged semi-pro athlete career, so to speak. ⁓ you know, I got into kite surfing. started going to Brazil, doing these trips down there. I met a lot of people in Brazil. I got invited to start guiding trips down there. ⁓ and the Northern coast of Brazil is like nowhere else in the world. It's.

Daniel Paronetto (12:57)
Incredible.

Bowen Dwelle (12:58)
over

a thousand miles of, of, of coast that is just perfectly aligned with the trades that come off the Atlantic. And so you can just ride downwind hitting waves day after day after day. And it's tropically warm, know, you're just in board shorts. It's amazing. You been there?

Daniel Paronetto (13:16)
Yeah, it's beautiful.

Yeah, I've been there actually learned how to kite surf. did like one lesson in the town that I'm from in Sao Paulo. ⁓ cause I'm originally from Brazil myself and yeah. So, and, and in Sao Paulo, well, it's inland. So we just have a lake. I did like a couple of lessons there, but it, ⁓ it was horrible. Like I, the guy that was teaching me didn't know what he was doing and I didn't know what I was doing. Nobody knew what.

Bowen Dwelle (13:31)
Okay.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (13:46)
where they were doing back then. And then

I went to Jericoacoara, which is in the north of Brazil, which is in Ceará. You might, you might know where that is. And, and then I, me and, know, my partner at the time, I stayed in this little place. There was no energy back then in this place that I went to. We went to this really remote area and there was a kite school there. So, ⁓ I learned how to kite surf there. I bought a kite that would, would not be inflated for more than five minutes.

Bowen Dwelle (13:50)
Yeah, yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (14:14)
And so I had to like stop

every couple of, ⁓ tax down wind and just reinflated and you'd go back up wind. but I learned there and then I told the guy, Hey, I want to come back. ⁓ and I want to teach kite surfing here for your business. And he's like, yeah, cool, man. Come back. So like I spend three, four months, ⁓ just getting better. And then I went back and spent a whole season there with them and man, incredible spot. Incredible.

Bowen Dwelle (14:21)
Yeah.

Yeah.

probably know the guy,

you know what I mean? I mean, I know people all up and down that coast, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (14:43)
It's

actually an American ⁓ woman that married a guy there. ⁓ and Mauricio and Patricia from, have a kite school there and their daughter is, ⁓ world champion. You might know her. her name just, ⁓ escaped from me. Mikhaeli, Mikhaeli. I forgot her name. She's, ⁓ she was world champion in kite surfing and she, ⁓ came just after Bruna Kajiya.

Bowen Dwelle (14:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

⁓

⁓ huh. Yeah.

Okay.

Mm.

Daniel Paronetto (15:13)
⁓

and, and it was funny, she was pregnant with her, that kid back then. And I'm like, my God, she's a world champion now. So it does breed some really good writers there.

Bowen Dwelle (15:17)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. So,

it does. It's just amazing territory. So I just encourage everybody, you know, like go to Brazil and I mean, we'll skip ahead and skip back. like, I can't wait to go back to Brazil with the parrowing gear because you want to talk about down winding. Like how far can you go? ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (15:36)
100%.

Bowen Dwelle (15:41)
So yeah, kiting, know, kite surfing. was super into that. Traveled all over the world, kite surfing, riding waves and just, you know, enjoying that. And then when the America's Cup came through San Francisco in 2013, ⁓ that just made it clear to us. mean, it was like, we began to see that you could make foils out of carbon.

Daniel Paronetto (15:54)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (16:06)
You know that could be used with kites right and so we always few of us started kite foiling that year.

And then, you know, and then winging came around and, ⁓ you know, and now parowinging and, you know, one of the things like that's become clear to me is it's this gradual transition from more less wind to more foil.

Daniel Paronetto (16:17)
Mmm.

100%.

Bowen Dwelle (16:34)
right? Less wind to more foil. And even though, I mean, I'm still a sailor. That's how I explain what I'm doing to people. Like if I'm just talking to some civilian who, you know, on the beach, who they're like, well, what's that thing? I say, well, look, it's just a type of sailing, first of all. And to me, that's what it is. And I think that's one of the differentiators, you know, for me.

Daniel Paronetto (16:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (17:00)
as somebody who comes from a sailing background as opposed to somebody who comes from like a surfing or downwind sort of foiling background. To me, it's still type of sailing, but as we've gone from, you know, super powered up wind surfing, you know, just pushing on that fin to the kite surfing, you know, to the kite foiling where we began to get the feel of riding the foil a bit.

You know, we try to depower the kite when we're on swells and things. And then wing foiling, we got a bit more of that because the foils are bigger. And now with the parawing, it's kind of another step in that direction. We're still sailing like crazy, at least here. But we also have the opportunity to really ride the foil so much more. And that's, that's one of the like the new and amazing things about the parawing.

Daniel Paronetto (17:33)
Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, look, I, I love that explanation of that progression because I think the, the closer we get to the foil and the closer we get to that pure feeling of just riding the foil with nothing else around you, be it some assistance. ⁓ I think there's so much enjoyment that comes out of that to be so connected to something so alien and you're like hovering on the water. And when you talk about down-winding and stuff like that, like you do that for.

You know, maybe an hour and, it's just, well, like a lot of people do. in, in, and it's just, it's, it's an unmatchable feeling. And I think, ⁓ what gravitated me to the power wing was exactly that, that ability to get rid of everything. You have the prone feeling in the Bay, you know, where I can go out every day.

Bowen Dwelle (18:27)
Yeah, well you do. No, no, right,

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (18:52)
⁓ and then when you, and the other thing for me that's attractive is also time on foil doing what I want to do when I'm out. ⁓ so if I'm proning, for example, I love proning and it's still something that challenges me and I love it. But what, if I have a good session and I'm not that good, I'll get five, six waves and pump around and then I'm pretty cooked. ⁓ while in the parrowing, I can get 20 waves and not be cooked at all, you know, be ready for more.

Bowen Dwelle (19:16)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (19:20)
So what was

the attraction for you for the power wing coming from that sailor mentality and background?

Bowen Dwelle (19:25)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it's a great question, you know, and it I mean, that it gets to the differences in our background and like our lens and how we're different people are kind of kind of coming out these these sports, right? Because while it's true that like I was ingesting all of this like downwinding, not hype, but I mean, just news, you know, like, wow, my God, look what people are doing. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (19:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (20:00)
We're not in the most downwind friendly place here. It's not that it's impossible, but it's, you know, again, as I mentioned, like the swell direction is typically onshore. It's not down the coast, for example.

That's probably the biggest factor. Also the water is cold and the coast is very rugged. Right. It's not just beaches, beaches, beaches. ⁓ So it's down-winding is not the, you know, there are people here doing it even out in the Pacific and in the Bay a little bit, but it's not a place where down-winding emerged organically like it did in Australia and on Maui, et cetera. And so.

Daniel Paronetto (20:39)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (20:46)
That was part of it for me was like, okay, down-winding and then parrowing came out of that. And, you know, but I didn't jump on it the first day. Like you did. I saw Greg's announcement because of course I'm on his list. You know, I saw it I was like, all right, well, yeah, I'll probably get one of those, you know, but I don't need it today. ⁓ it took me, you know, it just took me a couple of months.

Daniel Paronetto (21:02)
Yep.

Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (21:14)
So for me, the short answer is like, well, this is a new, another form of sailing with the foil. Like it's a new source of power to me. You know, it, it, it looked elegant and clean and it looked like it combined a lot of the aspects of kiting and winging, right? That I, that I loved.

Daniel Paronetto (21:21)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (21:43)
I thought, I'll be able to see again, for example, without the wing in my face. Yeah, exactly. You know, ⁓ and it just made me curious, you know, it made me curious. And, and, honestly, even from the beginning, I thought, okay, all these guys are saying it's just for downwind, but I bet I can make these things sail fucking fast too.

Daniel Paronetto (21:45)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can look left and there's something on your left. That's not a wing

Mm.

Yeah, wait a minute here. I like that. And I think, look,

if you, and I have a bunch of guys that I ride with here and they are all in the racing scene. They all have, you know, the Ram, the Ram Eric heights, the, just, just full racers. So they go out when it's 15 knots and they just like plow through the Bay. ⁓ and they've seen me from day one with the parawing and like,

Bowen Dwelle (22:22)
⁓

Daniel Paronetto (22:33)
see them with like a little eyebrow in the background, like I can see where this is going. You're doing something that I'd never do, but I can see how they will slowly transition into it. And on a day that it's blowing 25 knots, they're not gonna be racing. What are they gonna be doing? You know, they can wing, sure. I don't think they're into it. They did not jump into that. But the pair wing looks a little bit closer to what they're used to.

Bowen Dwelle (22:39)
Uh-huh.

Right. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (23:00)
And I can see, ⁓ certain brands now coming up with some gear that might get them into it. You might attract them. So let's talk a little bit about people that are transitioning into parowing. How was your transition from wing foiling and everything you knew about wing foiling and what you believed to be true about parowinging and how that transition happened from one sport to the other. How did it work for you?

Bowen Dwelle (23:16)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's see. Okay, well, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (23:35)
We can start with the first session because it's always nice to remember

those days where we went out and we just cursed at the thing and we're like, ⁓ God, I had a hunch.

Bowen Dwelle (23:41)
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. That's what's coming to mind. Yeah.

Well, I was going to say is like, okay, you know, I wing or kite or whatever, you know, it has been over the years just about every day here at our local sailing site at Chrissy Field. Okay. Which is definitely and correctly regarded as like an expert level sailing site. There's

strong and highly variable winds. There's a ton of current, right? With the tides that are changing every day, there's huge ship traffic constantly, you know, and a bunch of other things, right? and so those of us that sail there all the time, I mean, you get good, right? You get good. And so you think you're, you know, you're pretty much capable of whatever, right? So, you know, so.

Daniel Paronetto (24:16)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (24:35)
⁓ I did, I got one of Greg's Malikos, right. And I thought, yeah, I'm just going to jump on my, my board, you know, my wing board and just go. Well, the thing was for one, of course, that's my 75 liter wing board. And it was already by then it was late in our season because I didn't jump on it right away. And so I was underpowered and under boarded.

Daniel Paronetto (24:51)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (25:05)
Is that what we say? And, you know, and yeah, so I was just, and then I was over cursed, you know, I mean, or something, you know, I'm not sure. But it was miserable, right? It was, it was terrible. You know, for. I mean, it was kind of we have these days when it's like not quite 20, you know, it's it's it's 15 to 18 to to a bit.

Daniel Paronetto (25:05)
Yeah, yep, under boarded, new term. Trademark that one.

Yeah

Hmm.

What was it blowing?

Mm-hmm.

pretty patchy

and, and what size is powering? Yeah, it's tough. It's just like, if you're, if you know what you're doing, you might've been able to do it back then, but yeah, for a first session on a small board, ⁓ even if you have a big foil there, those conditions. I find that like patchy wind is just as hard as low wind because you need those, I don't know, five to 10 second gusts at least.

Bowen Dwelle (25:34)
Yeah, patchy. Yeah.

It was a four, yeah, Maliko, four, yeah.

Yeah.

And I didn't.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (26:02)
to pick you up. So if you have something that blows and stops, you never get that runway that you need. So those are challenging conditions for sure.

Bowen Dwelle (26:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, dude. And of course, when you're learning this new power source, I mean, you need more than five to 10 seconds. You need you know, you steady wind. Right. And not only was I under boarded, but I was under foiled because, of course, swinging, we're used to riding small, fast foils, you know, we just want to rip and.

Daniel Paronetto (26:17)
Mm-mm.

Bowen Dwelle (26:28)
Um, and I just didn't have a bigger foil. think I was, I was, you know, in my Mike's lab 700, you know, and, um, that's what I had. So I just gave it a go. Um, and then the season kind of ended, you know, pretty much we go through the winter here. We don't really sail that much. And, um, you know, it, it wasn't really until early this spring.

Daniel Paronetto (26:51)
Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (26:51)
I mean, it was only a couple of months later because

with foiling now, it's like the short, the off season is so short. But ⁓ by then, you know, I had an 825. I ⁓ didn't quite have enough. But then shortly thereafter, I got 950. So I had some bigger foils ⁓ and I got access to some bigger boards. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (26:58)
Beautiful.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (27:16)
And then also this whole range of different pair wings to try and that sort of thing. ⁓ So the first day or two were miserable. And then I'll say after that, it was easy. Really. After that was like dead easy. mean, anyone who's comfortable is who's kited and winged a lot. You know, you can get, know, you get up there as long as the wind is steady. ⁓ And again, I'm sure we'll talk all about board and foil size and all that sort of thing. But.

Daniel Paronetto (27:27)
Yeah, interesting.

Hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (27:46)
You know, once you get on foil, you're sailing. So, you know, you're on foil. It's really it's no big deal. ⁓ I mean, again, there's a zillion different differences and things to adjust to, but ⁓ just getting to that point.

Daniel Paronetto (27:52)
Yeah.

Which sport do you think helped you the most? Was it kite foiling or winging?

Bowen Dwelle (28:06)
That's a good question. There are definitely elements of both. mean, I think winging though, because of the board size and the foil, the way the foil works, ⁓ know, kiting, kind of you've got this power source that's way up there and you can just pop out, right? It's more like a water skiing kind of start, you know, whereas winging, you have to build speed with the board.

Daniel Paronetto (28:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (28:36)
⁓ Yeah, and, you know, and the sale is close to you, right? You can't.

Daniel Paronetto (28:42)
Yeah. I think, I think for,

for people that are starting out and I think, you know, focusing on that transition from winging to parawinging wingers will have advantage, um, because they know how to balance on the board. know how to hold a pendulum and be upright with really no speed. And they, they've built that balance because they had to. So I think.

Bowen Dwelle (29:03)
Yeah.

Right, the balance.

Daniel Paronetto (29:08)
Initially, the wingers will have an advantage because kiters don't really need to do that. you know, we loop a kite and we're off. ⁓ so more of a wakeboard water start, skiing start. then once you get up and riding and you're going and you need to tack or jive, that's when I think the kite foilers just get it so quickly because we were doing the same thing just with, you know, 20 meter lines.

Bowen Dwelle (29:16)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (29:38)
⁓ and I think then from then on the whole progression of parrowing control turning and using the parrowing in elegant ways or with attack, ⁓ will come very, very naturally to a kite foiler. ⁓ and then the wing foilers, think they do that as well, but they're not having to fly the wing as much. You really need to fly the parrowing. It's a kite. You need to manage it a little bit more. ⁓

Bowen Dwelle (29:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (30:07)
So what, do you feel is like, and I want to explain for the wingers, the viewers that are out there, what's the feeling of riding the parawing? How does it feel compared to a wing?

Bowen Dwelle (30:14)
Mm-hmm.

what does it feel like to see to me? Like the way it works, you know, where, where, where I sail the most, you go off the beach and

You point upwind to the bridge. Okay. And you know, we are aiming to get out there in the swell, the Pacific swell that comes into the mouth of the Golden Gate and funnels in there. And often there's a lot of very cool terrain, you know, to play with and swells that we can ride and all sorts of different stuff. But the first thing that you do is sheet in, lock in, and you know, nail it upwind.

Daniel Paronetto (30:46)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (30:59)
Right. No matter what it is that you're using. So to me, that's the first thing that comes to mind. Para-winging. Well, it feels like sailing, you know, and it feels like. It feels more like winging, you know, you're, you're powered up, you, you hook in the harness line and you're going up wind, you know, and it feels about, I don't know, 70 % winging and 30 % kiting because as you said, you know, the trimming. Right. Of this thing is, is more like a kite.

Daniel Paronetto (31:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (31:29)
Right with winging, it's like windsurfing. use your backhand to trim and even to steer. I don't know if you ever windsurfed, know, but when you're windsurfing, you use that backhand and you, it changes the center of effort and the sail that that's part of how you steer. And you would, do that with winging too, but with, with a parawing, you hardly want to use the backhand at all, really. You know, let that thing fly.

Daniel Paronetto (31:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's interesting. It's so, it's

more that sheeting of a kind of just having the right amount of power that you want and managing those gusts like gusts come through, you sheet out a little bit, you sheet back in and you just managing that to get that optimal angle upwind and such a feel thing. And that's where the kiting comes in. That comes so naturally to a kite surf and speaking with Elliot, um, in another episode, he also rides unhooked.

Bowen Dwelle (32:10)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (32:24)
And he's, he just feels that kind of trim angle better unhooked than hooked. And I can totally understand that from him because I didn't even know why I enjoyed riding unhooked so much. And I think that's one of the reasons why.

Bowen Dwelle (32:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. I've noticed that you've, you've mentioned that many times and I, you know, I go back and forth myself and actually one of the things that, you know, I wanted to bring up is that we, especially wingers perhaps, and you know, maybe old school windsurfers, whatever, we're going to go straight and want to hook in. Right. Also because the pair wing going up wind generates a lot of power. Right. And it's, it's more physical, but it's so critical.

Daniel Paronetto (32:57)
Mm.

Yeah, it's very physical, 100%.

Bowen Dwelle (33:08)
so sensitive to where and how you have that harness line rigged. If you think about, you know, the pair wing bars anywhere from like 12 to 16 inches and you know, every millimeter of where you have the harness line attached and whether it's two points or one point affects the balance of, you know, how it's how the wing is flying when when you're on that harness. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (33:13)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (33:36)
And so it's actually quite easy to like rig it wrong. And, and no one, there's no standard really. Um, very few manufacturers are even giving any guidance about how to properly attach the parawing to their, I mean, the harness line to their parawing, let alone including one, which is what I think they should all do. I mean, I would just like them all to include a harness line.

Daniel Paronetto (33:40)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (34:05)
designed for the parawing, you know, or one that they like. ⁓ and so, you know, just to unwind that the feeling is super critical. I mean, that's true with winging and any of these sports as well. It's true, you know, but, but the, it's, it's very, it's a very fine feel, you know, which is part of the beauty of it, right? You've, you've got it right in your hands and

Daniel Paronetto (34:08)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Bowen Dwelle (34:32)
One of the things with kiting and one of the things that attracted me to Greg's cloud kites back in the day was that those, those kites transmitted like the essence, the nuance of the wind in a way that I didn't feel with other kites because they're just so clean and simple. Yeah, they are. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (34:45)
Mm-hmm.

Dude, I feel like his pair wings are the same. It's so, and I'm doing a review on the V2s

now. I've been riding the Kaja and the Kanaha for a little while and man, they feel like a kite. They feel different than the flows, the O-zones coming from a paragliding background. They feel so much like a kite, but I just want to double click on something Bowen that you said that is super important. The rigging of that harness line. ⁓

Bowen Dwelle (35:05)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (35:22)
Can you tell us what are you trying to aim for when you rig your harness line to the bars? And you've probably rigged a few for in different pair wings now. So what, are you trying to, to achieve with the positioning there?

Bowen Dwelle (35:27)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good question. I haven't like fully codified it myself, but it was illustrative to me to fly the, to fly F1s pair wing, for example, that they just came out with the frigate. ⁓ and they do ship it with a harness line and it's a single point attachment. Okay. Which

minimizes, right? I mean, you can only screw it up, you know, at one point as opposed to two. Yeah. And it ships like in the right place. It's already attached.

Daniel Paronetto (36:08)
Yeah, it's true

Is it all the way on the top of the bar or a little bit further back from the ace?

Bowen Dwelle (36:18)
It's basically

between your front and your back hand if you have your two hands, you know, close together. Okay.

Daniel Paronetto (36:25)
Okay. So it's

like probably in the middle of the sweet spot of the bar. Just that one. Okay. Interesting.

Bowen Dwelle (36:30)
Exactly. So where you want

that line is, you know, where the parrowing would fly balanced if you're just holding it with one hand or even with two fingers, right? Where is it going to, you know, if you're holding it where it's just at the balance point? It would make sense, you know? ⁓ But it's easy, again, especially if you have two points of attachment, right? It's easy to, you know, if you move, if you have it back a centimeter or two or whatever,

Daniel Paronetto (36:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (36:58)
Plus it's also a bit of a challenge because you know, the bar, some, know, they're only yay big and you've got your two hands and maybe three bridle attachments or two, you know, and then two harness points. There's a lot of stuff there actually. ⁓ so it's a little bit of a problem to solve and, but yeah, that natural balance point is what you should be aiming for.

Daniel Paronetto (37:07)
Yeah, it's busy.

Mm-mm.

Bowen Dwelle (37:23)
You know, the same would be with the wing harness, right? You want it where hands would be or at the same spacing, you know? ⁓ But again, it's kind of easy to screw it up and then, you know, then it's end up, right? Overseating, right? Or, you know, if on the one hand, if it's too far back or if it's too far forward, well, then you're going to end up kind of using your back hand, you know,

Daniel Paronetto (37:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (37:51)
If you find yourself doing this, you know, then that line's too far forward. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (37:53)
Yeah. And I think wingers will do that. Wingos will,

will pull on that backhand instinctively because that's where the power is for them. Right. I want more. Where's more. And with the pair wing, well, what, what happens when you pull on the back, you're stalling it. So you're bringing it back to, know, where all the power is sure, but you lose a lot of speed. You lose a lot of upwind angle. ⁓ so you do need to understand, I think the wind window.

Bowen Dwelle (37:59)
Right. Right.

Right.

Daniel Paronetto (38:22)
little bit better, like a kite, know, that kind of circle in front of you, power zone, the further to the edge of the window that you position your pair wing, the further up wind you will be able to go. ⁓ so, and, and like you said, that happens within an adjustment that is like that precise, you know, you're going one centimeter up and down in the bar, but it's gusting 30 knots and going down to 20 and you have to manage that.

Bowen Dwelle (38:43)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (38:51)
So I think that's a huge challenge for people coming into the sport is flying the thing flying the thing properly, but in and I think I like that ⁓ term that you used overpowered versus heavily powered Can you explain that to us because I think you will ride heavily powered with the power wing and you just have to get used to that thing riding powered ⁓

Bowen Dwelle (38:58)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (39:20)
Tell us a little bit about the overpowered and heavily powered.

Bowen Dwelle (39:23)
Ideally powered, you know, we all talk about under overpowered, right? ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (39:27)
Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (39:28)
And the sweet spot. Well, of course, the sweet spot is a range in itself, you know, and what has become clear to me with the yeah, with the parowing is that. You know, there's the ideal, the range of ideal powered, the ideally powered zone is narrower in general still for parowings than it is for inflatable wings, certainly. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (39:49)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (39:58)
And the, but then there's a range like before you become overpowered, you know, we talked about riding overpowered, but to me, like, to be clear, overpowered means, you know, it's unstable. I'm unable to hold my line upwind and, or yeah, it may even be at some point it's unsafe.

Daniel Paronetto (40:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's a good definition.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (40:24)
Like

the, you know, the wings are going to start to misbehave. It's going to start to fold up. It's going to start to, it's going to buck me off. Right. So that's overpowered. Okay. But there's a range in there of heavily powered where, you know, of course it's kind of a gray area, but it's like, you know, you're no longer just cruising, just, yeah, this is perfect. But

Daniel Paronetto (40:46)
It's cranking,

yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (40:47)
Yeah, but you're cranking, you you got to hold it a little harder. You got to pay a bit more attention, you know, whatever it is. It's not entirely comfortable, but it's still usable power. the way, so I have this little diagram that I kind of reuse for people. don't know if you can see this,

Daniel Paronetto (40:54)
Mm-hmm.

Look at you go. Nice.

Bowen Dwelle (41:07)
So it's just basically in words, it's like, if you imagine with an inflatable wing, your total usable power, maybe two thirds of that at least is sweet spot. Okay. But with the para wing, the total range is less and more, less of it is sweet spot and more of it is this heavily powered zone. Okay. So when people ask like, how do the power ranges compare?

Daniel Paronetto (41:09)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (41:37)
That's how I tend to explain it. Now, of course, that's varies widely across different parowing models, you know, and some parowings are still designed or are designed on purpose to suit, you know, a much narrower range of functionality. You know, if the wing is, the parowings designed just for sort of pop up and go downwind, it may not go upwind very well comparatively.

Daniel Paronetto (41:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (42:06)
you know, at all.

Daniel Paronetto (42:06)
You can say

almost at that range is even narrower on that type of very low aspect power wing, because all it has to do is one thing is get you So you can just get up on whatever you want and board wise and foil wise. ⁓ and then when you look at something that maybe is a free rider kind of approach, then you need, or you're looking for that broader range or the broadest range available at the.

Bowen Dwelle (42:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, which is, you know, right naturally as a sailor again, you know, you want to put up a sail and not have to change it as much, you know, right. And so, you know, that's a ⁓ major feature, right. Of any kite or wing or sail or para wing for, you know, all around use is what's the total usable range. and, you know, I think, you know, here's kind of my

Daniel Paronetto (42:40)
yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (42:59)
My main premise, right. Coming into speaking with you, you know, that I wanted to bring is that like, despite the fact that pair of wings are invented for, you know, to be used as little as possible, right. To be popped out and get up on foil and put it away. Despite that, the fact is, or my, my opinion is, is that the majority eventually.

The majority of people are going to use them, you know, for all around writing. They're going to do a little bit of downwinding or a little bit of, you know, put away and write a few swells, but they're going to be using them in a variety of conditions. so more people are going to want. Parawings that, you know, are good in a sort of wide range of conditions. And then of course there will be ones that are designed for specialized uses for waves, for, know, for downwinding for that sort of thing. But this

Daniel Paronetto (43:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (43:57)
all around rider who wants a wide range of usable, you know, performance. That's, that's me for one thing. It's me. And I think it's, it's a lot of people, right? That's just a bigger piece of the market at the end of the day.

Daniel Paronetto (44:07)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It is,

and it's, and I believe that's why winging got so popular because it, it was, it became the most accessible foiling discipline, the easiest one for you to learn and get going. ⁓ it became the one that people can go out for an hour, park their car, do their thing and leave.

Bowen Dwelle (44:24)
Right. Good point.

Daniel Paronetto (44:35)
You know, when you talk about down-winding, there's so many things that get into play, like your experience level, your time commitment, and all of those things are just really big inhibitors for down-winding. ⁓ and I see a lot of people even here as well that would happily get a of wing and just what we say, mow the lawn, but not in a derogatory way, because there's a lot of people mowing the lawn doing amazing technical tricks. ⁓ that.

Bowen Dwelle (44:40)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (45:04)
Even now I see, ⁓ you know, the ability for us to begin to bring a lot of that kite foiling into it, do tax, but you know, leave attack with a kite loop with a power wing loop and, get that power back on. you can, you can have so much fun in flat water with a power wing, nailing these tricks and just really, you know, having fun in maneuvering the power wing, which we haven't seen too much of yet, but it will.

Bowen Dwelle (45:15)
Right.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (45:34)
it will progress

Bowen Dwelle (45:34)
yeah, it'll happen.

Daniel Paronetto (45:35)
and it will grow, think too.

Bowen Dwelle (45:37)
Yeah, totally. I mean, you have lots of people, you know, first of all, there's personal preference and inclination, just like, you know, some people are wave riders. Some people like to do tricks. Some people like to carve turns, you know, like as a skateboarder, I was never into tricks, but I was into going down hills fast and doing big carves and slides. You know, it's kind of a GS style of riding. Right. I'm not a racer either. I don't, I don't really love racing.

Daniel Paronetto (45:58)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (46:06)
Or I like it. Okay. But don't like to have to buy all the separate gear and all this stuff and show up on a particular day and time, you know, but so there's, there's all kinds. ⁓ but also the geography is such a big factor. Right. It's like, where do you live and what kind of conditions do you have access to? You know, and if, if you don't have access to, to side shore swell or, or a bay that, you know, makes

Daniel Paronetto (46:10)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

It is.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (46:35)
you that, works like yours does, you know, ⁓ you're just going to work with what you got and where you live. That's going to be the main spot you, you ride, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (46:37)
Mm-hmm.

I'm

really curious to see someone kind of push that side of things. And I think there will be a rider that will pop up with, um, that kind of approach and it's like powered, parrowing in writing. So having the parawing in flight while doing certain things like a kite. Right. And that could be riding little bumps that could be on flat water.

Bowen Dwelle (46:57)
Mm-hmm.

⁓ Yeah, right.

Daniel Paronetto (47:10)
Obviously there's freestyling, which is already a thing. And you see all these kids claiming, you know, world's first, not landing anything, but that's a different story. them.

Bowen Dwelle (47:13)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

you

got to land it and ride away, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (47:24)
Right away. that's, that's always been

my gripe with winging. When I see freestyle, I hate the like, like landing and just like, and then having to restart. think if you land and you come on foil and that's how I always try to land my tricks when I was kite foiling is sometimes even just to land on foil, not touch the board at all. That to me is like, I, you, you, you know, the trick. ⁓ I didn't.

Bowen Dwelle (47:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's Fred Hope.

exactly. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (47:51)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's

the reference and that's what we should all be aiming for. think, ⁓ it'll come with time. ⁓ but not to shit on it too much, but I like, ⁓ seeing those kids, you know, just. Huck things.

Bowen Dwelle (47:56)
Right.

Yeah, well, you got the cash,

know, cash,

Daniel Paronetto (48:06)
But tell us a little bit about these terms that are coming up now. Cause I think you are across a lot of them we have. And I think it confuses a lot of people because people are like, I stashed it and they're holding the power wing and then like they're packing it. But then, you know, they don't have a belt and what, are these terms you have pack, stow, douse, stash, wad, flag. Flag is a winging thing. Snuff collapse.

Bowen Dwelle (48:19)
Right.

Pack it, snuff

it, collapse. Yeah. Well, I mean, I, you know, I'm just always like fascinated with language and slang, I guess, in terms of like how language evolves and also how people use language different ways, you know, and, then, you know, if you're writing about something or you're talking about it, can be confusing if someone says, yeah, I stashed it. And it's like, well, did you or, or didn't you like, what do you mean by that? ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (48:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (49:03)
And so, mean, the thing with para-winging, It's like people want to, you want to, people want to put it away. Well, again, what does that mean? Like, did you, anyway, the way I talk about it is, know, the step you're, you're flying the wing, then you can collapse the wing or snuff it or douse it. Like douse is a sailing term. means to lower, but not put away. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (49:22)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, so

that would be pointing that bar down and having it fall. Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (49:34)
Yeah. And what

what Sinbad calls stroke it, right? Stroke the wing, the lines to collapse the wing. And, know, then it is doused, right? Because it's not generating power, but you're just holding it in your hands. You've got it wadded, snuffed, doused, collapsed. ⁓ But it's not put away and it's not stashed. To me, stash is like you're just

Daniel Paronetto (49:46)
Mm-hmm.

Wadded.

Bowen Dwelle (50:02)
just stashing it in the belt or in something you're stashing it. Yeah. So I guess it's just like collapse, stroke collapse, stash pack, something. And then you've got to, you know, you got to whip it out again. And then you go, know, then you can relaunch it or refly it, redeploy it, deploy.

Daniel Paronetto (50:03)
Mm-hmm. Same.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

redeploy it. Yeah. And I think those

are three, like you explained like three different techniques right there. One is getting rid of the power and holding it. That's, that could be done in many ways. Front lines, middle lines, all the lines, you know, there's, there's different techniques and they work differently for different pair wings. ⁓ I feel like front lines is probably the quickest and the most efficient, what a lot of people are using these days. You get to the leading edge and you hold the leading edge quicker.

and then the other thing that you said was, all right, so we're going to stow it. So that's the second technique there. How do you go from that dog's breakfast in your hand to then putting, putting it into a pouch.

Bowen Dwelle (51:05)
Speaking of dogs. There he is.

Daniel Paronetto (51:10)
And being able to then redeploy it, which again, a third technique there to when you actually redeploy, how do you do that? Right. ⁓ so yeah, like all of those things don't exist in winging and you know, those are things that people will have to learn. I'm a fan of land drills massively. Like it's underestimate, like I can't believe that people are not spending more time with the parawing on land.

Bowen Dwelle (51:35)
Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (51:36)
It's incredible. Like when you learn to kite,

you spend so much time on land and people expect so much from being like, Ooh, okay, great. the dogs are going crazy today.

Bowen Dwelle (51:43)
Let

me just give him something.

All these things, know, yeah, these different techniques for the collapse. mean, I find myself using that frontline technique for, you know, for all the pretty much all the pair wings. It is a real I'm finding some real subtle but meaningful differences in how well, you know, the leading edge of the wing concertinas.

Daniel Paronetto (52:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. That has to do a lot with the bridling and how the bridling is built in there.

Bowen Dwelle (52:17)
⁓

Yep. And also the thickness of the fabric, the way the leading edge cells are constructed, ⁓ all those things, some of them just fold right up into a beautiful rosette, ⁓ as we would call it in paragliding, because you do the same thing, actually, when you're on the ground packing the thing up. ⁓ You know, some of them are just harder to to collapse. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (52:23)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (52:45)
And honestly, dude, I haven't yet packed a wing away. just haven't had that, you know, I haven't gotten there. You know, we do get some nice long rides behind container ships here, just in the bay. so there's time. But I just haven't gotten there yet. You know, I just I just hold it in my hand, you know, because that.

Daniel Paronetto (52:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And that's, look,

that's, that's works totally fine. I think once you have it in your hand and what I do, and now that I, and this is really just being spoiled, writing BRM stuff because it does collapse really well. And it just, once it's, it's in your hand, just disappears, which is crazy. All I do is I run my, my back hand through the whole power wing and I just fold it once and that's it. That's enough, ⁓ to get it out of the way.

Bowen Dwelle (53:11)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Right, yeah. Yeah, then you can just stuff it in there.

yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (53:36)
And then, yeah,

if you want to, to stow it properly, ⁓ you know, you can, you can actually do maybe one more fold and put it in. ⁓ but people get a, they, they overthink it a little bit too much and it's such a repetition based, kind of skill that that's why I'm like, do it on land a hundred times and you'll see how your redeployment, ⁓ success will just grow, grow, grow.

Bowen Dwelle (53:54)
Yeah, muscle memory, yeah.

yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (54:05)
But I want to talk a little bit now, ⁓ bow in about, all right. I'm a winger. I'm going to get into parawinging. Where do I start? What size pair wings should I look for? ⁓ give us a little bit about your experience on like, where do I go? Where do I start?

Bowen Dwelle (54:05)
Yeah.

Yeah.

sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, totally. ⁓ There's some, there's a lot of information out there. ⁓ And again, it's tricky, you know, you're coming at it as an experienced winger, let's say, and you just want to, you obviously just want to try to use your wing gear, you know, your board and your foil. And the general answer is, you know, we talked about wind range earlier and because the effective, like the usable wind range of pair wings in general is still narrower.

You, you, you can use your wing gear, but what it means is if you do, you're going to be super overpowered once you're riding. And it's hard for people to understand that. But the reason is that if you're using that same smaller wing gear.

smaller board, smaller foil, you're going to need more wing, more parawing. See, here we are with the same pair of wings. So you're to need more wang to get going. You're going to need you need a bigger sail. You can say sail to to get going. And therefore, once you get on foil, you're going to be immediately overpowered. Right. So the answer to that is, as most people have heard, size up on the board and or on the foil.

Daniel Paronetto (55:22)
Yep. Yep.

Bowen Dwelle (55:45)
Right. So like if I, I, I weigh about 80 kilos, my wing board is 75, 78 liters. It's, roughly a hundred percent of my, you one to one ratio. And I typically wing with a 700 square centimeter Mike slab foil. So for me, if I was starting to wing and to pair wing, you know, I would go to like a plus 15 or plus 20 even on the leaders. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (56:13)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (56:15)
And I would go up at least one size on the foil, you know, really two sizes to begin with. so, you know, I'd be well served to begin with a 95 to a hundred liter board and like a 900 to a thousand centimeter foil at least. And if I was more of a beginner, like a real beginner, you know, I'd want at least a hundred liter board and like a 1200 square centimeter foil, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (56:23)
I agree.

And

I like that thought. And the reason I like it is because that allows you to go out on a three meter parrowing. If you have a big board like that and a big foil, and you won't get overwhelmed with the power that it generates once you're on foil, but the board and the foil will be enough for you to be able to build up speed with a small parrowing. Learn how to generate power from it because it is different and

Bowen Dwelle (57:09)
Right.

Right, different

technique.

Daniel Paronetto (57:14)
It's so different. think there's three kind of, variants of pop-ups. There's the pop-up with a downwind board, which has a certain angle you have to be at. And then you have a one to eight volume ratio board, like a midi. And then you have your sinker boards and the smaller the board you ride, the further downwind you have to point. And obviously the more power you have to have. So for me today, ⁓ I'm just, I'm just.

Bowen Dwelle (57:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (57:44)
riding that 65 liter board now and I'm loving it, but obviously I go out when it's 20 knots plus, but my pop-up with that board is powering like down in front of you. So I hold the bar right in the middle of the bar, bring it kind of really in front of me and then, you know, knees up one leg up. And then when I stand up, I do anywhere from three to eight pumps downwind.

Bowen Dwelle (57:48)
Mm.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (58:13)
Like as if I'm dock starting. That's what I have in my head. I don't want to build up speed like I do with the Dowin board and go through all the gears. I feel a gust. I unweight the board. And when I feel that I'm unweighted, I actually pump the parrowing. And if you do that simultaneously, you will build up speed, but you go from zero to on foil like that much quicker.

Bowen Dwelle (58:18)
Mm.

Right.

Yeah.

Much quicker. Actually, yeah, I

wanted to say, heard you describe this. I mean, I've kind of learned it myself, obviously, this, well, you have to learn the get up technique with para-winging. You have to learn how to pump the board and the foil. Now, if you're already a downwind foiler, you know how to do that. But if you're coming from winging, you don't really know how to do that. And so, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (59:01)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (59:04)
People just try to, you just start trying to do it at random and you're just trying to pump the board and pump the foil and pump the wing and all the things at the same time or whatever it is. And, but what you described about pump the board and as it comes back up, then try to pump the wing a bit. And so it's kind of an alternating pattern. And I agree. That's, that's way more efficient. the other thing for people to understand is like, even though as you get better,

Daniel Paronetto (59:21)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (59:34)
You can start to shift back to more of a high speed sailing mode with the parawing and I can now use my wing gear. Right. And I can go just as fast as I ever rode with my inflatable wings. Right. ⁓ I can beat most, a lot of people, you know, parrowing versus wing speed wise, but at first.

Daniel Paronetto (59:40)
yeah, 100%.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:00:00)
When you're learning, it's important to understand that the way that pair of wings are designed to work is to is to get up on foil and go way slower to sail more slowly and with less power and more foil and more board. So it's so tempting to try to use a small gear that you have. And it's a bummer maybe that you might have to go get a bigger board or whatever. But hey, at least you don't have to go buy a downwind board, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (1:00:09)
Mm-hmm.

and a paddle.

Bowen Dwelle (1:00:30)
and a paddle or whatever, just go by yourself a mid-length board. know, everyone's you've had great sessions. Lots of people have been talking about this. So ⁓ get yourself a mid-length board and you know, you'll just use it anyway as a light, lighter wind wing board if, if, you still wing after you start barrowing, you know. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (1:00:47)
Yeah, no, you definitely will.

And I think

to finish that thought on the popping up techniques, when you go from that small board and high winds to then you shift onto the downwind board and possibly even a small parowing, but a big foil, like we mentioned, perfect beginner set up. Popping up is very different. Popping up is not pointing downwind as much because if you do that with a downwind board, all the power in the parowing goes away. You slack the lines and all that stuff.

Bowen Dwelle (1:00:56)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:01:20)
It's more

Bowen Dwelle (1:01:20)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:01:21)
of a 30 degree angle where you're going from not moving to being in first gear, like getting the board to just, you know, go through the water. ⁓ and you're maximized. is how I visualize it. I'm maximizing every bump on the water, like a skate pump track. And I'm just picking up speed, picking up speed. I unweight myself over the bumps.

Bowen Dwelle (1:01:42)
Yeah, you're right, got it. All right,

Daniel Paronetto (1:01:47)
And then you

feel a gust in your, you know, in your hand and you're actually, you know, feeling a little bit of power. That's second gear. You start pumping a little bit, you know, not over pumping because that slows you down and creates drag. And then there's a moment where you're like, okay, everything is coming. have some speed already, and this is already like maybe 10 seconds in, right? Like low winds, you have to be patient. And I sometimes take a long time to get up and I'm just on the board trying to keep that.

Bowen Dwelle (1:01:56)
Mm, mm.

Mm-mm.

Daniel Paronetto (1:02:16)
first gear and then you feel another gust. That's when you say, okay, this is my chance. And then I go pump the board, pump the power wing and that technique that we spoke about, but it's so much slower. So much lower.

Bowen Dwelle (1:02:25)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. The thing is,

I mean, I, it's interesting to hear about that. And then also like for me and for people coming from winging, they're never going to own a downwind board. Right. They're just, no, it's just not even in the realm of possibility. So I think understanding this, this technique of, you know, pump the board and the foil down to engage the foil. And as it comes up and as it releases,

Daniel Paronetto (1:02:42)
Hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:03:00)
That's when you can use the parrowing to pump a bit. So it's bored and then parrowing and then it's bored and then parrowing. And I found that technique. I'm up in like three, three pumps. ⁓ and yeah. And that gets to the question of like, well, can you pump the parrowing? Well, not like a wing, not like an inflatable wing. It's a different technique, but you can. And that does vary a lot also between.

Daniel Paronetto (1:03:11)
Yeah, it's so efficient, yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (1:03:29)
different pair wing models and designs, right? ⁓ It depends on the aspect ratio and how they're bridled, but also the structure of the wing itself. ⁓ And ⁓ some of them just take to the generate power better pumping than others for sure.

Daniel Paronetto (1:03:30)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Let's talk a little bit about that evolution of the pair wings. and it's, it's been fast. It's been like, like lightning speed, right? So Greg launched the, the Malikos. It had so much grunt, like super grunty and a very narrow win range on those V1s. and then I think, I think flow was the next big step in the pair wings where they introduced that stability.

Bowen Dwelle (1:03:57)
Yeah.

Yeah,

totally.

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:17)
coming

from paragliding. and, and I think the next step from that was probably the ozone with the upwind angles that it was able to share very high aspect, parrowing. ⁓ and now the V2s, ⁓ where we're at, what does, what do the V2s bring to the table now? And I'm talking specifically about BRM because they are the first ones to bring the second iteration of their parrowing.

Bowen Dwelle (1:04:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:44)
What do they have compared to the first iterations?

Bowen Dwelle (1:04:48)
Yeah, it's a great question. It has been, you know, really quick evolution and also just fascinating. Like I've always loved the working, you know, with designers, you know, and just understanding, seeing the differences in what they come out with and their own like evolutionary processes. And, you know, Greg is like the definition of ⁓ you know, designer, genius designer where

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:59)
Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:05:15)
He's invented stuff out of whole cloth. know, if you, you've interviewed, if I've interviewed him, you know, anyone who's talked to him in depth, you hear the story of how he came up with the parowing and he came to the parowing from inflatable wings. You know, it wasn't like he came to it from a paraglider or even from a race kite. He was just trying to make the inflatable wings like kind of disappear, you know, and that, that

Daniel Paronetto (1:05:31)
Mm. Mm.

Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (1:05:44)
is reflected in, you know, in, how his pair of wings look and work. You know, there, to me, the way I describe it is this more of like an organic feel as opposed to like an engineered feel. ⁓ it's, it's, it's evolved, you know, from his design process as opposed to, you know, designed.

Daniel Paronetto (1:05:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:06:10)
on CAD, you know, based on, mean, if you look at ozone's wing, it's amazing and it's beautiful. It's a machine. And it was, you know, they had wings like that already in the computer, you know, para wings, snow kites, traction kites, single surface paragliders, race kites, you know, and so they had anyway, you get my point. dude, one thing like after flying about 10 different pair of wings, you know, from

Daniel Paronetto (1:06:16)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:06:40)
You know, flow and ensys and ozone and F1 and North and Naish and fly surfer and triple seven and duotone and BRM. Right. One of the things that blew my mind was going back to fly Greg's OG Maliko that I got from him, you know, in October and hardly used. And you know what? That thing, especially if you do the latest tweaks that

Daniel Paronetto (1:06:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:07:10)
You Greg has come out with that Maliko. It's still better than almost all the other bear wings or at least as good. It's amazing. I mean, you, you, you tweak the bar. You can move the front lines back a bit and it not only has the low end power, it goes up wind like just about as well as the latest and greatest, know, it's like bow down. It's just, it's so cool.

Daniel Paronetto (1:07:16)
I know, man.

Hmm.

It's crazy.

It says a lot about

how the bridling and the configuration of the lines, how much impact that has on the pair wings. it's such a minute change making such a big impact. ⁓ and I think what I felt from the V two's and, and where I think we've.

Bowen Dwelle (1:07:51)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, a couple of centimeters.

Daniel Paronetto (1:07:59)
Gained a lot of wind range is on the top end. So I don't feel like they gained anything on the bottom end. I feel like the bottom end is very similar to the other pair wings to the V ones themselves. But as soon as I got up and I tried the car first, which is even the one that goes up when as good, but it goes a win. Fine. I noticed that I got up and I was overpowered straight away and my, you know, I write flow, so I am heavy on the, on the a lines.

I just let go and I went on the airlines and it was just like, the, the, the high end of the, new power wings now is incredible. And I think that's where we're gaining. And I think that's when we're where we're gaining range on the high end. We're not doing too much progress on the low end still.

Bowen Dwelle (1:08:39)
And zo, hey.

Yeah. So with the BRM V2s, I mean, I've mostly written the Kanaha and I, the top end is very, very impressive. Um, you know, different pair wings do different things as they get into that truly overpowered zone. And actually, you know, some of them will start to flap the tips or, or just love, you know, like collapse in the center, which is, or, know, some of them just fall apart. Worst case scenario, you know, um,

Daniel Paronetto (1:08:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's worst case scenario,

Bowen Dwelle (1:09:17)
Greg's, you even to the, can keep riding it even when it starts to deform. It's just so heavily powered. It's, it's deforming, but it's still silent. It's still quiet, you know? So I agree. That's, you know, the, the, the V2s, ⁓ the top end, ⁓ the lines are shorter than, the original Maliko. Greg's line set, I will say is, is definitely, you know, top of the class. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (1:09:41)
another game changer for me.

Bowen Dwelle (1:09:48)
Along with F1, you know, their frigate, the line set is outstanding, but all these nuances, right? It really matters. How do the lines feel in your hands? Are they, are they stiff? Are they, are they too soft? Are they slippery? Are they too slippery? You know, ⁓ are they, you know, just long enough, just are they a little bit too long? All these things. So Greg's, you know, the BRM lines feel great.

Daniel Paronetto (1:09:50)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:10:15)
Also, again, I would say the same about the F1. ⁓ You know, Greg also innovated this this two point connection with the yoke and the super short bar. ⁓ You know, it just got its pros and cons. You know, it works really well ⁓ and it packs really well, but it's it's tiny. It's tiny.

Daniel Paronetto (1:10:34)
It is tiny. would,

I wouldn't mind another inch on that bar personally for my writing preference. I don't think it would deter, like it wouldn't take a, take away too much from the stowing capability. But, I think having that extension from and beyond the airlines makes total sense. You there's that the balance point is a little bit further forward than we initially thought. ⁓ and I think that's going to become the norm again, you know, like.

Bowen Dwelle (1:10:40)
Yeah.

Yeah. you can just.

Right.

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:01)
him setting the tone for, for, for what those hand positions are. ⁓ and the last thing that for me, think, ⁓ the BRM is unmatched till today. It's just a fabric that they use is, ⁓ you know, everybody was concerned about the longevity of the fabric, but I don't think it's an issue at all. And as soon as the power wing is in your hand, it turns into nothing. And I find myself with other power wings, just like,

Bowen Dwelle (1:11:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:29)
Getting air out and taking that extra five to 10 seconds to, you know, be able to get to that compact size, man. Greg's one is just like incredible.

Bowen Dwelle (1:11:38)
Yeah.

Also the nimbleness and the agility. ⁓ you know, give, give BRM top marks in, that category, just in terms of being able to fly the wing. It's just like we were saying earlier, it reflects that, that history of the cloud kites. They're just so incredibly nimble, you know, and you can turn it and whip it around and down loop it and do this and that inverted, whatever you do, all kinds of crazy stuff. and as for the short bar, well,

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:46)
Mm-hmm.

It's so kite-like. Yeah. Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (1:12:08)
He sells the longer bar. You know, so if you like a slightly longer bar, can just people can just buy those. So just just so people know, like, don't let that be a constraint if you love the BRM wings, you know. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (1:12:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I

like where he's taken it coming from a very similar approach to what I want to do. And my background of writing, like he, you know, his toe kiting with the foil to get rid of the kite. Like I went back in my Instagram feed and then I have videos with my buddies here doing the same thing. I recalled now, like that's actually the first. Feel of parowinging where we were on prone boards, getting towed by someone. So.

Bowen Dwelle (1:12:29)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

⁓ I see. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:12:50)
Which

was also another guy on foil. So we would have a strap set up on whoever was on the kite. They would, you know, loop the kite, both of us up and all right, cool. We got it. And then we would just go up wind and you can go up when surprisingly well towing. ⁓ and then they, would just look at a bump, you know, and say, all right, here I go. And just let go. we would tow and you just like ride back to shore. And, that's.

Bowen Dwelle (1:13:00)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Sick. Okay.

Daniel Paronetto (1:13:18)
That's where I wanted to get to with my riding with the parawing, is very close now instead of a 40 liter board. I'm on a 65 liter board, but I'm getting rid of the kites and just riding away those waves. That's awesome.

Bowen Dwelle (1:13:23)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah. You know, wow, that's amazing. Yeah. mean, I remember, you know, well, we didn't do that, but other things, you know, but what I'm thinking about in parallel is like, we're talking about BRM and then somehow these other different pair wings work and where they succeed in different ways. And also how that relates to, well, what we talked about before about wind range and

And how like people always ask, how do you know, how do I compare pair wings sizes to inflatable wing sizes? Right. Is my four meter the same as a four meter type of thing? And one of the things that we all thought at the beginning was that you're going to have to size up that pair wings are just less efficient because well, they were less efficient. That's already changed. And a lot of the ones that I'm, you know, that I've been testing, know, BRM

Daniel Paronetto (1:14:07)
Yeah, that's a good one.

Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (1:14:29)
Ozone ⁓ F1, the frigate and also the fly surfer. And for that matter, the flow, right? I mean, these are all very efficient, very modern, excellent air foils. And I'm finding that I'm sizing down in some cases, you know, I mean, I was on the two, two and a half meter fly surfer the other day in conditions that I would have. I mean, I don't own a two and a half meter inflatable wing.

Daniel Paronetto (1:14:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (1:14:59)
I don't even own one. have a three

meter inflatable wing and I'd honestly rarely use it. And I was on a two five, like, you know, so that just shows me, okay, we're already at the point where we're realizing the promise of these air foils actually being more efficient because they're out away from your body. You don't have that big leading edge, all this stuff. And I was on this

Daniel Paronetto (1:15:04)
Mm-hmm.

That's incredible.

Mm-hmm.

What board were you riding that day?

Bowen Dwelle (1:15:26)
Kind of oversized, like I have this 105 liter board, because that I off a friend, because we all use, they're all custom boards, because for Mike's lab, you have a Tuttle box. It's not a track. So it's just kind of like, what could I get? So I have this, I can actually stand on it. I mean, it's like a mini sup, but it's awesome because I can stand on it. You know,

Daniel Paronetto (1:15:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's so much fun.

Bowen Dwelle (1:15:48)
Well, and also just

where I'm riding, we're here in San Francisco Bay. Again, the wind is highly variable. We've got currents, we've got ship traffic. You do not want to be caught out, you know, and I'm out there testing gear. like, you know, you don't want to be caught out, like not being able to get up. Right. So I've got the two five. I've also got a four or sour three five or something stuffed in the pouch. So it's like my get back wing a little bit.

Daniel Paronetto (1:16:02)
Mm.

Yeah. And that weighing you down as well, a little bit.

Bowen Dwelle (1:16:17)
But

you know, so we're all carrying these get back wings, you know, type of thing. And anyway, yeah, big board. But it's light also. It's custom minimal board. It only weighs like. I don't know, four kilos or something. Yeah, literally.

Daniel Paronetto (1:16:28)
Mm-hmm.

Very good. I, um, I like what you're saying

though, about the, and I'm always comparing myself to the wingers that I'm riding with and then like looking at what sizes they're, they're going out in. And the two nine Caja is the smallest one I have at the moment. And even yesterday we were, I was riding it in 30 knots. It was gusting 35. I would never have been able to like hold on to a para wing like a three and 35 knots.

And already now I'm able to do that. Not comfortably. I was in the overpowered range, like you mentioned before, but you manage it because it's, you know, it's a gusty kind of situation. So when it's really blowing, you hold on when it's not, you, you charge up wind. But I think the technique is getting better. We're all kind of progressing our technique of getting up. Number one. ⁓ but number two, I'm understanding a lot more about my gear in terms of the foil set up of what.

Bowen Dwelle (1:17:06)
Right. Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:17:33)
Do

I need to ride? And I feel like going up one size foil that, you know, you would be on a wing is one, but then understanding how to compensate that feeling of being a bigger foil with very short fuselages. That's what I'm exploring with right now. So I'm riding an extra small fuselage with pretty much everything that I ride. ⁓ and extremely small tails as well.

Bowen Dwelle (1:17:41)
Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:00)
So I'm cutting up some tails and riding, um, like a one 20 or sometimes even smaller tail, a big front wing that gets me up, but then I'm able to turn, um, even down-winding. feel like a small fuse. It like the speed that I'm able to generate with a smaller fuse is so much bigger. So there's all these little nuances that now I'm having to adapt to say, right, what is the foil set up for para winging?

Bowen Dwelle (1:18:01)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:29)
⁓

that is working, right. ⁓ do you explore at all with those kinds of things, tails and fuses and, and stuff like that? Or does Mike's lab does not like that too much.

Bowen Dwelle (1:18:38)
It's funny because

it's not, I mean, it's just, it's just not, it's just not part of the picture, right? Again, like we're in this particular bubble here in San Francisco, you know, Mike Zajec's here. He makes amazing foils. And one of the cool things in a way about his foils are that they're so simple. You know, these are like, arguably.

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:45)
Yeah.

Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:19:08)
I mean, they're definitely some of the world's best foils, right? I mean, they're as fast as anything. They ride beautifully. They're ultra stiff, but there's no, there's no tails. There's no shims. There's no angles. There's no, there's no, there's no different fuselage. It's all one piece. Yeah. Your only choice is the size. You know, it's like 600, 700, 825, 950.

Daniel Paronetto (1:19:27)
This is what you get.

Bowen Dwelle (1:19:36)
You know, and then there's some older ones, 800,000, know, there's 1150 there's there's, and there's even smaller ones for like racing, wingfoil racing. Um, so you, you know, you don't have to fiddle around with all that stuff. Neither is there a track position because it's just a total box. goes one place, you know, you're the board is built to match it and you're done. Um, it does mean that, you know, there's a lot of optimization for in particular for.

Daniel Paronetto (1:19:39)
Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:20:06)
downwind style riding that just hasn't been absorbed into his process yet. And the 950 is kind of the foil that he built for us this season for those of us getting into pair winging. ⁓ And I have one and honestly haven't used it enough yet. I'm still, it's still part of my winger mentality. I did size up one size, but I should be

Daniel Paronetto (1:20:11)
Hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:20:34)
using that nine to the 825, I should be using a 950 more and.

Daniel Paronetto (1:20:39)
I think that

will come once or if people want to start like doing those downwind runs and connecting bumps and things like that, because what happens is you're on a bump, but then you need to get to the next point and that transition having a little bit more foil ⁓ works well. And even on the turns, like turning on a small foil and then like hopping out of that with.

Bowen Dwelle (1:20:54)
Yeah, you need to pump it a little. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (1:21:06)
speed to the next thing, you have to be so aware of what's coming around you to like, it's a very advanced type of writing. ⁓ so yeah, if you are getting into, you know, starting to get, get rid of the, the power wing and stuff, the, the nine 50 will definitely help you, ⁓ in that journey. I'm happy that Mike's done something for that. ⁓ so for wingers out there.

Bowen Dwelle (1:21:07)
Right.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:21:33)
that are starting to say, right, you guys are convincing me about this whole parawinging thing. ⁓ Can they replace their pair of wings with full power wing gear?

Bowen Dwelle (1:21:39)
Yeah.

That's it. That's the question. Can you, can you go from wing to wang? Just, just, can you just go? ⁓ the, and I, the answer is yes, we're, getting there. we're, getting there and, ⁓ a lot of people are going to want to like, again, whether or not para wings were originally designed with that in mind, they weren't. Right. But people are going to try anyway.

Daniel Paronetto (1:21:52)
Yeah.

Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:22:18)
They're going to, they're going to try to do it anyway. And, ⁓ the answer is that yes, with the, you know, some of the latest wings on the market, ⁓ you know, again, BRM, Ozone, F1, FlySurfer and Flow. You know, I know that Flow's working on kind of a V one and a half or V2 or whatever it is. They've got some tweaks. They're all working on further developments. We're, getting to the point where.

Daniel Paronetto (1:22:43)
Mm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:22:47)
these most recent pair of wings do have like that little diagram I showed, you know, is, is it starting to stretch out and, know, um, especially I gotta say like the, um, the F one and the fly surfer pair of wings have really impressed me with their range. Um, and. You know, that doesn't just go to like, how many do you need? It's like, well, can you

Daniel Paronetto (1:23:07)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:23:15)
get up, you have enough power to get up on foil and then to ride and ride up wind powered without being overpowered? That's why the wind range is so important. And we're getting to the point where we have the, the almost the same effective wind range, ⁓ as an inflatable wing. And once we're there, now they're good, you know, then yeah, you could just go, just go Wang, you know, but

Daniel Paronetto (1:23:24)
Mm-hmm.

And

Bowen Dwelle (1:23:44)
There are going to

be some, some disciplines that, you know, are better for winging, just like there's some disciplines are better for kiting. You know, you want to throw big air. Well, go get a giant 12 meter kite, you know. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (1:23:57)
And like, I, I'm not sure what the wingers are doing in your area, but the wingers here, they, they park their cars, they go up wind, they flag their wings and they write little bumps and they do that little laps. And I'm like, dude, if you're going to do that, do it with the parowing. Like have so much more fun with the parowing. ⁓ and then I think if you're going into freestyle and stuff like that, think, ⁓

Bowen Dwelle (1:24:16)
Right, you could definitely do it. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (1:24:25)
There is that that scene is, still a little bit far for, for pair winging, but you could see now people doing handle passes and mobs and. know, front flips with a kite loops and like, it's going to get there pretty quick. You know, these kids in summer now, they have nothing else to do, but you know, try to kill themselves in the water and hood river. They're going to do some cool things, man. can, I can guarantee that I,

Bowen Dwelle (1:24:45)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:24:53)
can't wait to get there and have a look at what they're doing.

Bowen Dwelle (1:24:56)
Speaking of dude, yeah, I know you're going and we have to what we have what occurs to me is we have to announce what's of course gonna be called Wang week Or maybe Wang's world I don't know say

Daniel Paronetto (1:25:07)
my, the people that that will attract will be amazing.

Wang's world I think is a little bit more appropriate so we don't get too much of the loonies out there. Tell us about that. What's Wang week?

Bowen Dwelle (1:25:24)
I mean, well, I think you kicked it off, you know, second half of July in Hood in the gorge in the gorge. Because we'll be, you know, no doubt roaming up and down the river there. ⁓ Yeah, you're coming out right. And a whole bunch. There's just going to be people from all over the world, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (1:25:40)
Yeah, it's it, it kind of coincided. I

don't think it was anything planned, but you know, speaking with everyone, Ken Atgate will be there. think Cynthia will be there. Keith Taboo will be there with some of his boards for us to try. You're going to be there. Like there's going to be, and then obviously all the locals there, know, ⁓ McFlowy and then, ⁓ Brendan Shade is he's frothing.

Bowen Dwelle (1:25:54)
Cool, KT, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna come up.

Daniel Paronetto (1:26:09)
on parawinging right now and given his story and his background with everything that happened in his life, I think it's very interesting that he's getting interested in parawinging. So definitely keen to, interview him there. ⁓ so yeah, look, it's going to be, it's going to be a fun two weeks, fun two weeks. feel like a lot of us will be in the water for three to five hours, not really getting shuttles.

Bowen Dwelle (1:26:10)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:26:37)
But shuttling ourselves up and doing maybe shorter runs, in the most, like the high performing bits of the river, depending on the day, which I'm really excited about. I'm actually building some backpacks for that trip. Like I'm, I'm getting these little, backpacks like with some water in it and I'm cutting the whole kind of backpack out and putting that stretchy fabric that you have on the ozone.

Bowen Dwelle (1:26:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:27:05)
Um, around it so I can stuff some pair of wings in the backpack, have water. Um, and, and yeah, just have a couple of pair of wings on me without being, um, having to go to shore to actually do anything. I just want to be in the water for the whole day.

Bowen Dwelle (1:27:09)
Yeah.

Okay, what color can I order a particular color?

Daniel Paronetto (1:27:23)
⁓ man, I, you know what I'm doing? I'm going to Timo and I'm buying these really shitty bags for 15 bucks and

I'm just hacking them at home. I bought some Lycra and my partner poor thing is helping me sew all these things together for hood.

Bowen Dwelle (1:27:33)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No,

it's a good idea. I've got some little, you know, pack that I've been using, but having something a little a little bigger, carry some water. So it's. Self-sufficient, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:27:47)
Yeah. Yeah. I want to be like pretty self-sustained out there and

have maybe, you know, I don't know, some cereal bars or whatever, but I'm imagining us going up wind stops, stopping somewhere, grabbing some food, coming back down. Like I want to be in the water for the whole day. And I know Ken is keen on that too. So he kind of, he got me onto the pack because he bought, I think it was a pro limit one or no, it was a ride engine one that has the hawk.

Bowen Dwelle (1:28:04)
Well, you know. yeah, he is.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:28:15)
And has some water

Bowen Dwelle (1:28:16)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:28:16)
and he's like, I just needed something bigger to put my parowings on. Like I'm stitching something. ⁓ come up with some.

Bowen Dwelle (1:28:21)
Yeah, yeah.

No, he and I were talking the other day. He was he was chasing me. ran into him on the water and it was nice validation. You know, when when like Ken Adgate comes up behind you and he's like. I was on the frigate then that day and he's like, that thing is fast. I said, yeah, man.

Daniel Paronetto (1:28:33)
yeah.

Yeah. Well, and he, man, I, I haven't, can't wait to

ride with him because I have never seen him ride live. I've seen him ride through videos and stuff, but I just get the impression that he's just that powerful rider that just, just like you see people ride and then there's this guy riding at like twice the speed of everyone. And you're like, who is that person? Is that Ken?

Bowen Dwelle (1:28:51)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's very fast rider. Very strong, strong moves. ⁓ Very like very athletic moves for sure. Everyone's you know how it is. Everyone's got their their style. You know, you can kind of recognize someone even, you know, a kilometer away across the water. You can see who it is. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be fun. I have been up there before. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (1:29:09)
Mm.

Yeah.

100%.

Bowen Dwelle (1:29:32)
you know, various times, of course, but it's not like my regular thing. ⁓ So it'll be super cool to spend a little time up there. And ⁓ yeah, kind of with this whole new, you know, with the in Wang's world, like I said, now the pair of pair wing crew, maybe maybe that guy Demetri will even make it. I know he said he maybe has changed his plans, but he can't get away from Mauritius.

Daniel Paronetto (1:29:48)
It'll be fun, man.

yeah, he texted me the other

day and he wanted dates and I'm like, mate, you have to come. And I try, I try to get him on the podcast and he's like, ⁓ I don't, I don't know. Like my English is not that good. I'm like, we don't care, man. We want to, we want to hear from you because if people don't know, Dimitri is a guy that's super active as well in that Facebook group and he's just a tinker. Yeah. He's innovative and tinkering and he's creating these.

Bowen Dwelle (1:30:01)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, no, I, yeah, I talked to him. Yeah.

Yeah. Innovator. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:30:24)
systems where you can depower, ⁓ with using the front lines and minimize like half the length. You can get to the leading edge and doing these. It's not a pulley system, but it's close to that. some.

Bowen Dwelle (1:30:35)
And

he's also probably just got more time on foil and on different pair of wings, you know, in mega conditions. I mean, you know, that way, but Mauritius is legendary.

Daniel Paronetto (1:30:38)
Yes.

Yeah. So yeah,

he's been riding waves, doing downwinders. ⁓ so yeah, I've, I've learned heaps from him and every, yeah, we text each other every now and then. And if he comes down, I'll, I'll, yeah, I'll tie him up to a tree and interview him and get something out of him.

Bowen Dwelle (1:30:58)
Hmm.

Yeah, everybody

check out. Yeah, Dimitri SV, I think. Yeah, he's a cool cat.

Daniel Paronetto (1:31:07)
Yeah.

Bowen Dwelle (1:31:09)
everyone, course, is working on stuff. know, know, Greg is he's he releases something and he's he's he's, course, already working on, you know, new stuff. All the pair of wings are out there, you know, are all going to be updated.

soon, some even before the end of the year, certainly. And yeah, it's a good point, right?

Daniel Paronetto (1:31:31)
I think AWSI will be big for new. Yeah.

Like I think, you know, around September, given where a lot of these pair of wings came out, it's going to be reaching that six month time frame that they might even think about putting something new out there just to get into like in sync with the market and all that stuff. ⁓

Bowen Dwelle (1:31:42)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're right. think, you know, we'll probably see updates from Ozone, from Flow, and certainly from, I mean, the stuff that came out from Naish and North and Duotone, for example, is all really cool and, you know, work great in certain situations, but those are all kind of more, seem like more specialized or just more limited range. And also a lot of manufacturers are going to come out with

Daniel Paronetto (1:31:58)
Mmm. Mmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:32:18)
Like Greg has already multiple models, just like there are for inflatable wings, of course. So you're going to see some of that. Um, and again, yeah, as the year goes on, I just think you're going to see a lot more at the same time as you see a lot more people getting into down winding, like, or mini down winding with pair of wings, you're also going to see a lot more just all around riders, you know, switching to pair of wings. And so you're going to see the quality and range and versatility.

Daniel Paronetto (1:32:41)
Mm-hmm.

Bowen Dwelle (1:32:47)
of these all around pair wings, just continuing to advance. Right. And man, to go from, you know, when I used to travel to Brazil with my little quiver of cloud kites and the Brazilians down there would try to take the piss or the first, cause they see these kites and they're just like, what are you going to do with that thing? And then I'd take off down the coast, you know, and

Daniel Paronetto (1:32:59)
you

Bowen Dwelle (1:33:10)
I've got four or five sizes packed into a little bag and then to go to wings with the booms and the bladders and all that stuff. And now to go back to pair of wings and we can travel with four of them in a little bag, a little, know, fantastic, right? So.

Daniel Paronetto (1:33:13)
So good.

man,

it's yeah, I think it'll, it'll be interesting to, to see where it yeah, I think this summer will, will bring us a lot of innovation, a lot of cool riding and a lot of froth, man. think everybody's just happy to be out, happy to see other people ride and meet each other. And I've never experienced a sport from the beginning.

Bowen Dwelle (1:33:45)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:33:49)
From the very inception, I've never had that opportunity, ⁓ winging. kind of got in later. Like I didn't really see the attraction and all the other sports I've been involved with. We're there. So I had something to learn already from and get started and power wing men, we can take it wherever we want it. So happy to have you man on the podcast. Since that first interaction that we had, ⁓ with the, article in the magazine.

Bowen Dwelle (1:33:49)
yeah. Good point.

cool.

Mmm.

Cool.

Daniel Paronetto (1:34:17)
You know, you've been bringing a lot to the community. thank you for that. Bowen. ⁓ I think it takes people like you to really build the sport up and, show people and always consistently putting good information out there. So, so thank you for that, man.

Bowen Dwelle (1:34:21)
Well done.

Yeah, you too. You too, Dan. Yeah, right on, man. You're doing the same thing and it's just fun to explore, you know? ⁓ yeah, that's it. You know, it's been a pleasure and that's a great point. It's been part of something from the beginning, you know? And, you know, just whether you choose, you know, Wing or Wang is like yin and yang, right? Choose whichever you want. Go for it.

Daniel Paronetto (1:34:51)
That's it.

We're all gonna have fun together and that's what it's all about,

Good to have you on Bowen. Thanks for coming on and I'll see you in Hood. Yes!

Bowen Dwelle (1:35:01)
Yeah. Yeah,

bro. Here's my dog. He's got to take him out. So we're all we're out.

Daniel Paronetto (1:35:07)
All right, it's time. Cheers, brother.

018_Bowen Dwelle: Why should wingers transition into Parawinging

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