Speaker 1 (00:00)
day we have Elliott LeBeau with us. Downwinding is still number one. Sub downwinding is still number one or just downwinding in general because you can downwind with apparently. β
Speaker 2 (00:11)
Is that what it is? Are you serious? β
You're looking at this gust coming and you feel it and you got about one one thousand two and thousand three one thousand I need it to like respond now in the future. You should space it. We should just be tacking the whole time. yeah
Speaker 1 (00:43)
It's an elegant way to ride, isn't it? Right.
Speaker 2 (00:46)
And once you've experienced down-winding and the pureness and freedom of not having anything in your hands, that's like the ultimate feeling. What I did notice right away is you can go upwind better unhooked than you can hooked. Explain that to me. Like for me and you, we saw it and instantly knew what to do with it. It's like you discovered, like, hey, we figured out this way to fly to the moon. Are you interested?
Daniel Paronetto (01:22)
Welcome to the Lab Rat For the podcast. My name is Dan and today we have Elliott LeBeau with us. Elliott is the owner of ACL productions and has a very interesting history in board sports. Welcome to the podcast, Elliott.
Elliot Leboe (01:35)
Yeah, thanks Daniel. Thanks for having me. And like I was telling you before, I've watched a lot of your different episodes and I think it's awesome what you're doing as far as new people with information. And then for those of us that are already in it, it kind of reaffirms a lot of the stuff that we're finding and testing them and figuring out the boards and what front wings to use and what type of pair of wings to use.
Daniel Paronetto (01:59)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (02:04)
Anyway, much appreciated and like I said, bye.
Daniel Paronetto (02:06)
dude, this, yeah, I'm actually
honored to have you, man. You've been, you have such a β rich history with every sports that I have been involved with from kitesurfing to winging and you know, obviously now, β downwind and para winging. So, β and I have like, admire you a lot because I have a history in video and, and, and I know like the quality of the stuff that you do is just incredible. β so I really want to touch a little bit on your background. Give.
our audience a little bit of an understanding of what you've been through, you know, in your sporting career, riding for Cabrinha all the way, like where did it all start? And then how did filming and video got introduced into your life? And then we'll start talking about foiling and parawinging, but why don't we start from the beginning? Where did it all start for you?
Elliot Leboe (02:58)
β It started as far as being involved with wind type sports β through windsurfing. And when I was 12 years old, I grew up in Texas, really close to Galveston Bay. And my dad and my older brother β were into sailing, but my dad had bought an old Mistral Kailua. You'd have to go way back. But if you know what that is, was like the original
know, Dacron Triangle sails and my dad and my brother were trying it and I remember trying it, trying to pull the sail out of the water and struggling with it. And, you know, I was 12 at the time and you know, when you're 12, you're kind of into soccer, you're into like sports and stuff like that. So for me, was kind of like, you know, the water activity was kind of a foreign thing for me.
And I just kind of attached to it very quickly. Like I knew not that I had planned to do that for a very long time, but I knew that's kind of what I wanted to do and it kind of fit me. And I remember as I was learning it and getting better at it, I was getting into 13, 14 and phasing out of all the ball sports and into like water.
Daniel Paronetto (04:24)
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (04:26)
And then I just became, that's all I wanted to do. and so it did start with windsurfing from a very young age. β and how I ended up here on Maui, I've been here, β about 27 years now. And so, you know, when I'm starting windsurfing in Texas, it's far different conditions than Maui has obviously. And you know, we're in like brown water and in Texas and
Daniel Paronetto (04:41)
amazing.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (04:55)
the waves are maybe waist high. And so, you know, I would look at these magazines of everybody who, you know, like, you know, Robbie Nash and Dave Kalama, Pete Cabrini, all these guys and see these like, Hokiepa blue waves. And I'm like, man, I got to go there one day. And so as I got into more windsurfing and I ended up, you know, coming to Maui more as I, as I got older and graduated school and ended up.
coming to Maui just pursuing windsurfing and I remember getting off the plane here and seeing just like this green sugar cane waving in the wind and then I saw the water was this electric blue. I remember getting in the water and I was like wow you can see your hand underwater. I can see my feet you know because I was used to brown water back in Texas and so I went through everything that a new
Daniel Paronetto (05:36)
Amazing.
Elliot Leboe (05:52)
windsurfer not from Hawaii goes through which is go out of Hokipa, go get slammed on the rocks, get urchins in your feet, do all the things that you're not supposed to do. I did them all and I think that was good for me to go through all of that. know learning about waves, learning what waves to go out in and then seeing all your idols on the beach and what they're doing and so I had perceived
Daniel Paronetto (05:55)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (06:21)
pursued windsurfing, you know, and I was kind into the racing and slalom and a little bit of the waves. β So I was going to Ho'ipa a lot and I was also racing at Kanaha and pursuing the races and then did a few events on the tour like Aruba and Barbados and didn't really do that well on them. β And so we were living in Haiku at the time and
Daniel Paronetto (06:27)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (06:49)
you know, I was at that point where I'm not really progressed. I was progressing with windsurfing, but it was just kind of like, I don't know if this is going to like what's next for me. And my roommate at the time who was also windsurfing was Lou Weinman. well, so we were roommates. We were both windsurfing. He's from Florida. I'm from Texas. And we, we were both windsurfing at the time, not really.
Daniel Paronetto (06:56)
Mmm.
One of my favorite kitesurfers of all time.
That's incredible.
Elliot Leboe (07:18)
nothing to do with kiting at the time, this was way before kiting had ever started. So I'd be going out when serving at Kanawha and I remember seeing Flash Austin with his, with the funny part about this is Flash had this kite and across the kite was this logo called Razzles, which is his bar in Florida that he used to take his skim board, ride this and it was a Ram Air kite.
Daniel Paronetto (07:21)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (07:48)
very similar to what we're using right now, but just on longer lines. Had razzles on it, which is the bar in Florida. So he had this one kite, he would come down through Kana'a and just like launch these airs. And I was just, he would just float around. And so I had seen, I'd been going to the gorge since I was probably 18 or 19 years old. So that's like 1988, 89, I've been going to the gorge for windsurfing and I'd seen Corey Rosler.
Daniel Paronetto (08:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (08:18)
obviously who's the true godfather of kite skiing slash surfing but no one had ever really ridden with a surfboard style which is Flash had just started doing that there was like Rush Randall, Laird Hamilton, Ciara Emery all these guys had started to get a hold of these Wippica kites and so I would come home and be like Lou did you see Flash out there he was like levitating and stuff
Daniel Paronetto (08:40)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (08:46)
And Lou comes from a wakeboard background in Florida, right? So he was real familiar with the cable. And I remember him telling me he saw it and he's like, man, we can wakeboard off these things. And I told him, like, nah, there's no way, man. There's no way you can ride a wakeboard off of one of those things. He's like, yeah, I know we can do it. And the funny part is like I had no faith in him. You know, I was like, there's no way you're to ride like a wakeboard off of one of these kites.
Daniel Paronetto (08:49)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (09:17)
And so sure enough, we got ahold of them at Wippica 5.0's two line kites at the very beginning. You the little mini pump, you pump the thing up, no idea what we're doing. And he happened, we did start on β Jaws tow boards. We had these Temponi, I bought mine from a guy named Luke Hargraves who sold me one of his old Jaws boards. So at the time,
Daniel Paronetto (09:28)
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (09:47)
everybody who was kiting were basically reusing whatever boards they had in their garage, was tow boards were about this size. Yeah. And they happened to have foot strap inserts too, so you could stay attached to the board. So we were riding these things. We hadn't learned to go upwind. We were launching at Ho'kepa, hot launching, getting drug through the sand, launched out and you know, we're doing downwinders.
Daniel Paronetto (09:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
The smallest toe board probably you could get your hands on.
Jesus.
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (10:15)
very similar to what we're doing now, but β you know.
Daniel Paronetto (10:19)
unintentionally,
just what you could do at the time.
Elliot Leboe (10:21)
Right. So we didn't know we could stay up when so we had had gone a little bit and then Lou also worked at β a surf shop called Hawaiian Island Surf and Sport and Jimmy Lewis was making boards for a guy named Lenny there and he had met Lou and he's like, Hey Lou, I heard you're in this kite thing. Why don't you just come up and we'll shape a board. And so we, kind of
Daniel Paronetto (10:24)
Hmm.
guys.
Elliot Leboe (10:50)
He got linked up with Jimmy Lewis and we started to build like this giant twin tips, you know?
Daniel Paronetto (10:56)
I think I remember this. They didn't have like that nose that went in and out. Like a little fork.
Elliot Leboe (11:00)
They, β
yeah, that was, these are like five foot six long twin tips with full size sailboard fins in both ends. Like we didn't know, we were like, this will make a stay up wind. And so we went, by the time the boards got built, we had already gotten so much better that we were on like normal size wakeboards. And so we received these boards and their re-
Daniel Paronetto (11:06)
Yep.
Whoa.
Yep.
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (11:30)
Five, six twin tip, huge boards with, I mean, and they just, they didn't work at all because what we needed at the time and how long the boards took to get built, we had already progressed enough to where we could launch in one spot and come back to the same beach and get in our truck and leave. And that was like a big day. And I remember the day that happened at Spreckelsville when we came in at the same spot. And then we were like, β we just need to be able to edge.
Daniel Paronetto (11:32)
God.
Yeah.
Hmm β
Elliot Leboe (12:00)
to stay in one spot. And we've been riding these tow boards which had fins and you couldn't really hold an edge with them. And so once that happened, β we started to be able to just launch, come back to the same spot. we found in our, sorry, getting a little long winded, in our...
Daniel Paronetto (12:05)
Yeah, no rail.
No dude, I love this stuff because
actually Lou was my favorite kitesurfer for a long time and I love that you guys were roommates because I haven't met anyone who was that close to him. What was he like? He was one of those guys that I saw in the water that just came with a different energy like a creative just sendy kind of guy. Like what was he like?
Elliot Leboe (12:30)
Go.
A very unique individual. I haven't met too many people that are like him. β Intensely focused and...
Daniel Paronetto (12:47)
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (13:01)
He had a brain that was like working ahead of its time. Meaning, I used to always tell him that the stuff that he was doing early on in kiting was so far ahead. I would tell him like, Lou, you're too far ahead. Like no one can figure out what you're doing because you're so far ahead of the game. As far as maneuvers goes β in the early days of kiting.
Daniel Paronetto (13:15)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
yeah, like he was doing handle passes
and nobody would even be able to ride the thing and he was doing handle passes on him. It's crazy.
Elliot Leboe (13:33)
Yeah, but we
did share a similar mindset of β wanting to always tweak gear, meaning we would get something, pull it all apart, rebuild it, chop it, make it to what we want, go test it, come back in that night, stay up all night, tweak something else. And so...
Daniel Paronetto (13:42)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (13:57)
you know the early like line winders we chopped the coat hanger and taped them on to make like the things that could stay on there so we were just literally changing it, trying it and then the next day would be an innovation of like we made line winders so now your lines don't get messed up and then we figured out you have to wind the lines in a figure eight so that they come out even and then these little things that β
Daniel Paronetto (14:20)
Mm.
Elliot Leboe (14:26)
we were figuring out and I guess my side thing was when we were doing all these downwinders before we learned to stay upwind, when we would come in from Hokipa, we would come in at Ka'a.
Daniel Paronetto (14:39)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (14:39)
because it's a little sheltered cove in there. And so we come flying in and we hit this little flat water spot. We're like, β this is nice here. There's no chop in here. And so we would come in there and there'd be nobody there, maybe a couple of fishermen. And so after we learned to stay upwind, we just started, why don't we just launch there and stay there and ride in this nice flat water.
Daniel Paronetto (14:48)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (15:04)
because with a wakeboard, you're definitely nicer to be in flatter water than rolling through chop. And so that's basically how we started kiting at that Ka'a area was it was the flattest water. It was a shelter launch. β And then, you know, kind of just turned into a giant party of people learning to kite that were like, I guess we just go to Ka'a and that's where you go out at. β And so we spent a lot of years at
Daniel Paronetto (15:30)
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (15:34)
down there learning tricks, learning to launch. β
just in the early days of kiting as far as the flat water stuff goes. And we would still push like the way riding side at lanes and we were kind of shut down from Hokipa. was kind of a sensitive subject as far as having kiters mixing with the surfers and windsurfers. So we would usually just stay down at lanes and ride waves on the good days and practice our whatever we were trying to learn down at Ka'a.
Daniel Paronetto (15:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's so cool.
Elliot Leboe (16:06)
And that led me, you know, we pursued that. β That led into foiling for me in 2004. β I was writing for Cabrinha at the time and Pete, who was involved with Laird, Dave and the whole strap crew had already had his set up.
Daniel Paronetto (16:26)
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (16:29)
with the air chair foil and the boots and everything that. And I was on my way back from a, there's a kite contest in Silva Plana in Switzerland. It was like one of the early ones. I was on my way back from Switzerland, visiting my folks in Texas and this ski shop in Texas had an air chair foil. And I'm like, I'm gonna put through that. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (16:52)
all places you found Naratir in Texas.
Elliot Leboe (16:55)
Yeah, and so I'm like, I'm putting this in my board bag and bringing it back to Maui. so bought it. Yeah, I just bought, you know, it was a mass foil aluminum hole setup, threw it in my board bag, came back to Maui. β
Daniel Paronetto (17:05)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (17:10)
and handed it off to Jimmy Lewis who was building all the boards at that time. I had to go get like a, I had to chop the top and make weld on like a T so that Jimmy could like screw it into the boards. And that's how those guys like Pete and Laird and Dave were modifying theirs. β And he built me a board and I got the K2 clickers and then me and Pete, we would go out and this right when I started riding for Cabrinha, we would go foil.
Daniel Paronetto (17:26)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (17:39)
on it was like the CO2 I think was the very first cabrina right when they learned to depower and we trudge out with our K2 clickers click in and then go foil around
Daniel Paronetto (17:48)
Yep.
That's so
early, that's so cool, man.
Elliot Leboe (17:56)
It's very early on and β I definitely remember of days when I would launch at Ka'a and go all the way upwind to O'Kipa and very quickly like they would go upwind insane. I would go up there ride waves and come all the way back down and we did that. We also used to tow with it a little bit too. I would go out with Pete and sometimes Rush Randall and we would
Daniel Paronetto (18:09)
Wow. Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (18:25)
toe on the smaller days. Nothing huge, but I do remember it just being super sketchy with the boots and just being locked into them. And I'm really bummed because I, I know I sold all that stuff and I just like, if somebody out there somewhere has my setup and I'm just wondering where it ended up.
Daniel Paronetto (18:33)
suck. Yep.
That would be awesome just to own and just leave it in.
Elliot Leboe (18:47)
I'd love to like get those original boards back. So I'm sure at some point someone's gonna watch this go, I have that board. It's and yeah. Yeah. And I, I regret actually a lot of the early kite stuff, β not keeping it. β Jimmy does have a lot of the original like pickle fork style boards β that were done by Liquid Force. β
Daniel Paronetto (18:51)
That'd be incredible.
Well, hopefully, It's a museum piece, to be honest.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (19:14)
So Jimmy has a lot of those relic boards, I, know, lot of stuff ended up under the house and I'm just like, I'll get rid of it. I'm like, no, I'm like, dang, I would've, I wish I would have kept some of that stuff. And in particular, the foil stuff. Well now, yeah, now that I'm like total foil brand again, I'm like, where's my original air chair foil, which I don't have anymore. β
Daniel Paronetto (19:19)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a relic, man. It's amazing.
Yeah.
Did you get into filming while you were working with Cabrinha?
Elliot Leboe (19:40)
My filming started in 99. So while we're in this whole kite thing, β this is very early on. it was basically not a lot of, it was like Robbie Nash, Pete. There's a crew of us on Maui doing it. There's a crew in Europe doing it. Rafael Sals, Mauricio Abreu from Brazil. β
And Raphael's sister Valerie Sals would put this contest on in Leucote in France. And so it was like Maui versus France, you know? So myself, all the Maui guys flew out to meet up against, to go against the French guys, you know? It was like, β it's, know. And so I don't know if you've ever been to this particular spot, but it gets very windy, very offshore wind. β
very cold too. So they put us up in these little like villas right on the water and while you're waiting for the contest to start you know you're eating croissants and pizza and you're in this warm little you're in your warm little room right and then you know Valerie decides oh
Daniel Paronetto (20:37)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (20:57)
Kiders are going out and it's blowing like 40 gusting to 50 and it's like, you know, it's like 40 degrees and you just were eating pizza and croissants all warm and now you got to put this wetsuit on and go compete, right? And so, yeah, so zero warmup. So what happened with me is mid heat in one of those heats, I went from being nice and toasty and warm, throwing a wetsuit on going out and you know, we're launching jumps right by the beach and stuff. And I remember
Daniel Paronetto (21:01)
β God.
Send it.
Elliot Leboe (21:26)
had zero warm up, it super cold and β was in one of my heats, landed right in the middle of two pieces of chalk and my board stuck and my knee went straight back and tore my ACL and
Daniel Paronetto (21:40)
Dude.
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (21:45)
knew when I did it, I've never done it before, but I knew I'm like, β man, I did something to my knee, I'm not sure. And so I dragged myself back to the beach and I was stuck in my boots. I'm like, Lou, I need help, help get this board off me. I think there's something wrong with my knee, but I'll be fine. And then the next day.
Daniel Paronetto (21:55)
Yep, yep.
Elliot Leboe (22:05)
the thing just blew up and I'm still in denial as it never happened. I'm like, I'll be fine. And this is at the very beginning of the PKRA meaning like PKRA number one was the next week in Austria. this is, so, you know, I'm like, I'm going to do the tour. It's going to be awesome. But first we go to this Lucat event and then the whole tour started from ground zero. The very first one was Austria.
Daniel Paronetto (22:07)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah, right.
β what a shame.
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (22:35)
So I'm like, man, I'm still going to Austria. I'm not gonna, this is my chance. I'm gonna get on tour and the kite tour is starting and you know. So I traveled to Austria from Lukat with my knee, you know, this big balloon. And I get there and at that same event, Flash hurt his ribs in Lukat as well. So we're both there, kind of like injured and we're like.
Daniel Paronetto (22:40)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (23:00)
this new PKRA is starting in Austria and I'm like looking at my knee and I'm like man there's no way I can do this and flashes out with like a rib injury. So the organizer of the event, I'm like hey I need to fly back to Maui and just take care of this thing.
And Flash is like, yeah, I'm out of here too. My ribs are screwed. So they gave us β the tour doctor, right? And some guy in Austria is a doctor, kite or kites or something. Like, go to this doctor's house. And we're like, I'm like, I got to get on a plane. Like you can't fly with your knee. It's huge, right? So me and Flash go to this.
Daniel Paronetto (23:19)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (23:39)
PKRA doctor's house in Austria and he like I lay down lay down I'm like okay he gets out this like needle you know what are you doing he's like and flash is sitting there like looking at me laughing he just jabs this needle in my knee and starts extracting blood you know and I'm just looking at my knees swelling go down and down and down and that was the only way I could fly back
Daniel Paronetto (23:48)
β god, he's gonna drain it. β no.
Yeah.
OOF
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (24:07)
to Maui without it swelling back up again. Flash didn't have a needle or anything, but he flew back as well too with me. My point is, that's how I got started with ACL productions. I blew my ACL out and after I did that, So, it's a very long way to tell. I was getting somewhere, it just took a little while.
Daniel Paronetto (24:21)
Mm-hmm.
Is that what it is? Are you serious? That's amazing.
I love it!
Elliot Leboe (24:35)
So the ACL productions was from my ACL that I blew. I got the surgery. I had six months rehab. Everyone's at Kaa'alu, all the guys and I'm sitting there on crutches. You know, what am I going to do? I had a video camera and just started filming. And then I ended up with so much footage that I'm like, I guess I got to learn how to edit it. And we were working with Chris Tronalone at the time.
Daniel Paronetto (24:42)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (25:04)
who is also involved with filming kiting in the very early days. And he kind of taught me how to edit. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (25:09)
Mm-hmm was he did he did do like the space monkeys movie meant that I watched
that thing on repeat When I was starting and that was just everything for me. That's so cool
Elliot Leboe (25:16)
Yeah.
Yeah,
it was Chris Tronolone, his little brother Buster Tronolone and Shanti Berg were around early days filming all of that stuff. And so I learned from him as far as the editing goes. And we had done a video called Hi. I don't know if you remember that one. That was with Chris. Yeah, I mean, those are very early, kind of right when we got a hold of the wakeboard stuff.
Daniel Paronetto (25:40)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I watched all of those things,
Elliot Leboe (25:49)
And there's some even earlier stuff before that for Air Rush when they first started. β So I basically learned to edit and made a video called 10-4, which was β all of the stuff that I had accumulated during my injury.
Daniel Paronetto (25:53)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (26:12)
lumped into one DVD and that was the time when you can make DVDs and like actually sell them and make money back. β And then that's kind of how it started for me was just through filming, kiting, β and then you you progress through into surfing. You just progress into different stuff that you like shooting wise and
Daniel Paronetto (26:17)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (26:36)
And now I definitely still do a lot of, I do film a lot of foiling stuff obviously with KT guys, but I do a lot of commercial stuff besides that, is really what β allows me to, money wise is where the money's at versus the wind sport industry.
Daniel Paronetto (26:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Man, I love that you've seen a lot of the sports developed through the lens of a camera because I share some moments that I was filming friends or people doing amazing things that you're seeing it through the camera and you just have that moment of like, my God, this is a historical moment. What are those moments that you recall from being behind the camera that you said, this is a landmark moment right there?
And I've seen everything that you've done, not knowing sometimes that you've done it. But even like the sessions, like you, did some historical filming in Piahe and like you've seen so much,
Elliot Leboe (27:35)
β I mean any of the... I was very fortunate to see the whole... I was around early enough in the kiting thing and fortunate enough to witness it happening in live in front of my eyes. Like β for instance when Lou would stomp something new no one had ever done it before.
Daniel Paronetto (27:47)
Mm.
Elliot Leboe (27:55)
and so somebody filmed it and it was the first one to ever film a MO or a Slim Chance. They're like, β I guess that's the new thing now. Everyone's got to do it. So there is stuff happening daily that someone would do a new trick, it'd never been done before, and then if you filmed it, you're the first one to ever film that. And once that...
video got out, would slowly get word of it. It's not like it is today where it's instant. Everyone knows about it the next day, you know, someone's already doing it and he's half your age. β On the JAWS side, that was... I mean, I was shooting the JAWS stuff when the towing was a big thing.
Daniel Paronetto (28:23)
Hmm. Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (28:43)
And it was just progressing and the people starting to paddle it.
Daniel Paronetto (28:47)
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (28:47)
β
And so there's a lot of monumental swells that happen where people paddling it. Most notably like the October 2012 when Shane Dorian got the one kind of legitimate paddle barrel that kind of sparked everything of like, wow, okay, you can paddle in, pull in and come out without the use of a jet ski. And that was the October 2012 swell.
Which I felt was like a big moment for the paddle scene out there. And obviously the stuff that Kai does there, mean, it's like no one's doing that. And every time he goes, I mean, literally a month ago, he did six sports in one day. And the last thing he did was parawing. He cycled through this entire boat full of toys. And that's, you know, I don't know, there's no one else doing that.
Daniel Paronetto (29:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Every day something new.
Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (29:41)
So that stuff, you get kind of used to it out here, I think, because you're just surrounded by this group of people with this mindset. β I don't really know how to describe it, but... β
If you come out here you would instantly be like, β this is a crazy group of people from the, especially the foilers who are 100 % addicted either from his downwinding, winging, proning, parawinging. β If you go to car, it's kind of like a group of addicts is how I describe it. β People you see every day. Well, yeah, but... β
Daniel Paronetto (30:11)
Mm-hmm.
That's everywhere in the world, isn't it? Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (30:26)
We are in it, so we don't see it. But if you came, you'd like, but then you'd be like, these are my people. It's kind of how it feels, you know? β But I mean, it's just every day. We have great conditions every day, and it's just there for the taking if you want to participate. β
Daniel Paronetto (30:28)
Yeah.
Yeah, yep.
Elliot Leboe (30:45)
which makes it sometimes difficult to work, maintain that balance between family, working and foiling is a constant juggle of like trying to, β you know, keep your cup full, but also, you know, work and spend time with your family, which leads me to thing on this up down thing.
Daniel Paronetto (30:49)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yep.
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (31:14)
with pair winging.
Daniel Paronetto (31:15)
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (31:17)
sorry I'm just rambling but so you know if you have kids and a job your time is very slim yeah you know what I'm going so I'm really trying to like is this legitimate this up-down thing is it for real and so I've been doing a lot of solo
Daniel Paronetto (31:25)
Mmm, I know where you're going. yeah. yeah
Elliot Leboe (31:37)
launching a car, cranking up wind, figuring out how long is this lap going to take me and what am I getting out of it. And I basically went today, I launched at Ho'okipa thinking like, if I launch at Ho'okipa, I can be immediately in the bumps, crank up to Malika or past Malika and just be hammering runs out, come in, go pick my son up from school, go back to work all within a certain amount of time. And it is there. β
Daniel Paronetto (31:43)
Mmm.
Beautiful.
Elliot Leboe (32:06)
not quite as far as like what I'm detecting as far as efficiency upwind. It's good, it's much better. And I'm talking about V2 versus V1 BRMs. The V2s are much better upwind and I'm on the Kanaha. I feel like for upwind, yes. β And what I've been finding is I've...
Daniel Paronetto (32:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Yep yep.
Which one are you using? Yeah, so that's the best one upwind.
Elliot Leboe (32:35)
I ran, me and Sinbad both decided to crank upwind. I'm really curious to see how does this BRM go against the Ozone. Trying to figure out what goes upwind better. We were very much, very similar. She was going slightly better than me in the lulls. I was going slightly better here in the pups. But I'm much bigger than her. She's lighter than me, so that makes sense. But we were very similar angles upwind. And then I have gone upwind with...
Daniel Paronetto (32:43)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (33:03)
Decent wingers not not pros, but not total beginners and there's better than me upwind and that's that's with me Doing I'll go out with a four meter lit thinking like if I'm lit I'm gonna crank upwind better and sometimes it's not like that and I've gone with the 3-2 and Properly powered upwind and the wingers still beat us upwind not by much
Daniel Paronetto (33:11)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (33:30)
And if it's a good winger, if it's a recreational winger, you'll go better than them.
Daniel Paronetto (33:37)
It's such a delicate, β like, window to actually be able to be really effective going upwind. And it obviously relates to your board and your foil. maybe tell us, because you're very tall, so you would be, how much do you weigh?
Elliot Leboe (33:53)
It's like 200, so 90 kilos up or down, 6'2". So yeah, I'm on the definitely bigger end β of both parawing size, front wing size and board size. I'm usually a size up from everybody else at the beach, β just because I'm...
Daniel Paronetto (33:59)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and what board are you
riding at the moment?
Elliot Leboe (34:14)
I've been on KT. I've been today. I took a super K 104 Production super K to the new one which I like a lot super easy board to ride I have been riding Keith made me a 610 by 1999 liter Which is an excellent board? but That board was built Right before the V2 is released
Daniel Paronetto (34:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (34:43)
from
Greg, we started that board and it was getting built and then he released V2s. And so as soon as I got on that board, I'm like, yeah, I really need that anymore. Cause now I I got, I got a way bigger range out of the V2s. In other words, I could take a bigger parawing and more control and get my low end and be in control on the top end. So suddenly I'm like, okay, here we go. We're scaling down boards.
Daniel Paronetto (34:54)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (35:12)
just because of that release of the new BRM. So the latest one that is, I was in there this morning with Keith, it was like six, two, 20 and a quarter, 90, right around 90 liters. β Yeah, and I feel like we're gonna land around that zone. I wouldn't have said that if we only had V1s.
Daniel Paronetto (35:28)
Okay, one to one weight to volume ratio.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (35:41)
on BRM's. I would have said plus 5 to plus 10 for most people. It still is a good rule of thumb. β But I feel like what I've been telling people is if you had the 2.9 BRM V1 you can now ride the 3.2 Kanaha and have more material in the air and get a better low end.
Daniel Paronetto (35:46)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (36:10)
because it's bigger than the T9, but have way more control on the top end. And that's how the range expanded. So you're able to put more material in the air and hold onto that material longer and more control.
Daniel Paronetto (36:12)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (36:25)
So you did the low end that you gained is that you have more control on the top end, which allows you to take a 3-2 instead of a 2-9. And that's how you get the low end and the high end. So that's how the range expanded in these latest versions that Greg released.
Daniel Paronetto (36:33)
Thanks
And you have you tried different shapes or was the super K kind of your go-to straight away? Because I think, I think a lot of people are bringing in this mentality of long narrow board into parawinging, which I think we need a little something a little bit different because I think a little wider gives you that stability when it's really cranking. And I don't think we need all that length because the parowing once it's juiced up, it'll pick you up.
on a synchro board if you're doing it properly. So how did you go through, you know, your iterations of, β you know, length to width and even, β think thicknesses as well as something that I'm, I've been focusing on lately.
Elliot Leboe (37:27)
The 610 prototype was more a test of this new bottom shape that Keith's doing in a new rocker line, rather than dimensionally. That dimension can change, but the biggest thing that we came away with on the newest prototype in what I was telling Keith needs to be prioritized, I think, is the board needs to be, number one, it needs to be stable.
Daniel Paronetto (37:57)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (37:58)
meaning like you're standing sometimes for a long period of time waiting for wind. So you need to be able to stand on it semi comfortably and they need to accelerate quickly. Meaning a gust lasts from like three to seven second little zone where you're looking at this gust coming.
Daniel Paronetto (38:21)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (38:24)
and you feel it and you got about 1, 1,000, 2, 1,000, 3, 1,000 up to about 7 seconds and then usually the gust passes. So you need to be able to get that board to accelerate in anywhere from 3 to 7 seconds. And it's a different acceleration than a downwind board where you're going with a bump because we're traveling across most of the time on takeoff. There's occasions where we do
Daniel Paronetto (38:32)
Hmm
Mhm.
Elliot Leboe (38:53)
get in like a downwind board. So it needs to accelerate quickly diagonally through chop. And so the rail profile is very important. And the thicker it gets, the more it gets knocked off course. Meaning like I got chop coming in from the side. It's not directly downwind. And what you really want to do is if you think about a board, you have all this chaos happening on the surface.
Daniel Paronetto (39:09)
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (39:24)
and 75 centimeters down, your front wing is just cruising in nice underwater, nice and calm. And your front wing is telling the board, quit moving. I just want to get up and go, but you're moving all over the place. So the board's job is to just not move that foil and let it engage in clean, clean water. So if you look at a board like that, it's got to control all this chaos on the surface.
Daniel Paronetto (39:35)
Mm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (39:54)
and then you start to understand certain curves work in certain areas and you want that board to move forward and not get knocked off course.
Daniel Paronetto (40:03)
That's so interesting and it makes so much sense to me now because I've been riding a very thick board. I think it's six inches and one eighth. It's very, very thick and it's very quirky. β It's a set five, 10 by 18. So very narrow, β 85 liters and I'm 82. So with the gear 85 liters, so one to one weight to volume ratio. And when it's
25-30 knots man. It's not easy to stand on that board. It's so thin and quirky and it's just everywhere and what you're saying about Getting up going crosswind. I find it so difficult with that board I really just prefer to go downwind and wait for that super puff that I just like anything would pick you up And I'm doing now a board. That's a 5 8 by 20 At 65 liters
And I think that's going to be easier than the 85 liters to get up in over 20 knots.
Elliot Leboe (41:00)
Yeah, feel like to I really was before V2s came out on the bandwagon of a mini downwind board being the ultimate parawing board. Because I feel like you're always searching for some sort of advantage in the water. And how I would describe that is if you've ever surfed and you paddle out on a surfboard that's a little bit
Daniel Paronetto (41:09)
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (41:29)
to not quite enough leaders and you're trying to catch waves and yet you feel like you're at an instant disadvantage. You're kind of like, if I little bigger board I'd be like a little further out. And so I always, on dimensions of boards and front wing sizes, I always want to be a little bit at an advantage of what the conditions are doing. And so I guess my point is, β
Daniel Paronetto (41:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (41:59)
I've always been a proponent of taking a slightly larger board than maybe you need for the having that advantage when I need it. And I guess...
Daniel Paronetto (42:04)
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree with that
man. And, and, and the pair wing still has a very narrow wind range. So that advantage is where you can maybe downscale on your pair wing size, which makes it more enjoyable. It makes it probably easier to go up wind as well because overpowered, you're not going up wind. Overpowered that thing is just going to crank you downwind. So I love that the V2s, I haven't tried the V2s, the BRM V2s yet, but I think, you know,
Parawings that came after BRM. I think the next big jump was maybe the flow with the stability And then I think ozone has done a great job with theirs There's other companies that came out with their pair wings that I wasn't really excited about because I don't think they matched the level of stability and upwind all that stuff so β Do you have a preference on what? Parawings you guys are gravitating towards in on Maui
Elliot Leboe (42:44)
Mm-hmm.
β Personally, I've flown the ensis in the water. I've flown all of them on the beach, but as far as most of my is all BRM and I have ridden all had all the B1s. I've ridden the Ka'a, the Kanaha, flown the Maliko 2 on the beach, but haven't flown the Maliko 2 on a run. β And we ride so much together. β
There's a big crew of us here and some guys have D-Wings, some guys got the Duotone, this guy's got the Ozone and we're always riding around each other, some going upwinds. We have a good idea, like that run I did with Cynthia was to test like what goes upwind better? I don't know, the Ozone or this thing and we were very similar. β And so I guess I mostly have...
Daniel Paronetto (43:43)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (44:01)
background of being on the BRMs as far as my opinion on you know what pair wing is better or worse β and I don't I would say what prioritized for me I'm not like wanting to race a parawing but I am concerned how upwind it goes because if it goes upwind good it tacks good
Daniel Paronetto (44:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (44:30)
And we should pretty much, I know we're not that good at tacking, but in the future, you should basically, we should just be tacking the whole time. Right. Right now you're like, β tax are crazy. I'm like, yeah, they are because you're getting ripped the other way because you're, it's not penetrating into the wind. the better upwind it goes, the easier it is to tack. And when you start tacking, you gain efficiency upwind.
Daniel Paronetto (44:39)
yeah, it's an elegant way to ride, isn't it? Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (45:00)
You're not jiving every time. Jiving, of course, you'll do it sometimes, but I feel like when you go out, it should be as easy as it is with an inflatable wing to tack these things. And the new ones are much easier to tack. So how well it goes up wind isn't based on like, oh, I want to race up wind and beat this guy. For me, it's like, if it goes up wind, chances are I'm going to be able to tack. And that gets me up wind faster.
Daniel Paronetto (45:10)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (45:30)
come back downwind.
Daniel Paronetto (45:32)
100 % and it was that the
was that the main driver for you like the Like the fun you have in the water for the time you spend in the water is that what drew you to the pairing because I like to understand from different people Why are they so invested in pair winging right now? And I feel that you're really heavily invested in it like I'm out in the water and I don't know nine out of ten times. I'm on the pair wing now β Is that the same for you?
Elliot Leboe (46:01)
Yeah, it is becoming like that. I mean I still love to downwind sup
that's like number one. And so I, and obviously I've prone and in the surf when the surf's good. And then I used to wing a bunch, but how I viewed winging was like, this is just something to do if you can't downwind. So it was kind of like, yeah, I'm cruising around and you know, tacking and stuff, but all I really wanted to do is downwind or ride a wave. And once you've experienced downwinding,
Daniel Paronetto (46:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, 100%.
Elliot Leboe (46:37)
and the pureness and freedom of not having anything in your hands, obviously other than the paddle. You understand that that's like the ultimate feeling, I feel like, β on foiling in the open ocean. then once Greg, I will say before Greg, there was Sam, β who had a lot of innovation as far as, β
Daniel Paronetto (46:57)
100%. Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (47:03)
the concept. It's Cynthia too with her parachute thing but really Sam Reynolds was huge in β the early early parawing stuff. And so you come to the beach.
Daniel Paronetto (47:04)
Mm-hmm.
That was, was that the first
one who like the first person who really took that concept of being propelled by something that looked or resembled the parachute into like doing something. Okay. Let's, let's refine this into the next level.
Elliot Leboe (47:27)
Yeah, he showed up at the beach. It was a controllable mini kite on short lines and it was controllable. I'm like, and I'm like, that's cool. Are you going to make those? He's like, I'm trying. So I mean, it was like, you know, day zero and β he would show up at the beach and he would do runs, Maliko runs with, with it, you know, to come down when he wasn't really staying up when, but I do remember
Talking to him on a few runs, he's like, a couple times I just kind of stayed in one spot in the surf by Kanawha and I got like a three few waves and I had to blast down wind. So he was, he was wanting the same thing of like, I just want to stay in one spot and ride waves. β and that's really what Greg had progressed it to. And the turn, why I didn't immediately gravitate towards Sam's was the handles.
Daniel Paronetto (48:00)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's so for me, it's still like so interesting because I'm the same as you. saw the pocket wing. I'm like, that's cool. But it was like maybe 5 % off what it needed to be for me to jump on it. And I don't know what it was about it because I couldn't even see that he wasn't going up wind. I just saw this thing and it looked a little bit uncontrollable, but when the BRM came out and it looked very familiar, it looked like a kite. I like, know how to kite. I know how to kite for, I know how to do this.
It gave me a very, β relatable thing that I jumped. I bought it within five minutes of watching Greg's videos. I'm like, he cracked it. And then obviously by watching it a hundred times, I was like, they're going up wind. And then I just buy now like immediately.
Elliot Leboe (49:10)
Yeah, what you just said is exactly my thoughts too. I'm like, I exactly what to do with it. As soon as it came out, I'm like, there it is. But it wasn't, β I had already, I can already downwind sup, know, Liko. So I was more interested in riding waves with it. Meaning like, I don't want anything in my hands and I want to get into a big set wave outside and just go.
Daniel Paronetto (49:13)
Yes.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
rip.
Elliot Leboe (49:38)
And so that was what was going through my head. wasn't like, oh, now I can downwind with it. That wasn't even really like, I'm like, I don't really, the downwind thing would be fun, but I'm, I really want to ride waves with nothing in my hands. And so for me, yeah, correct. And,
Daniel Paronetto (49:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And laps, right? Just do those laps. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (49:57)
And it did do that. We would get into these bombs on the outside and you just park it. And then you just, you got three minutes just all the way in. And then, you know, it took us a little while to figure out how to stow it and pop it back up. And then we're popping up, get right back out. And then that's where the upwind became a thing because
Daniel Paronetto (50:04)
Amazing.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (50:22)
you kick out going, I don't know, do 20 turns and you end up a little bit downwind, you're like, I gotta get all the way back to the top of the peak. And then once you start mixing in with the wingers, you immediately see how much of a disadvantage you are coming back upwind. And with the V1s, I always felt like I was at a disadvantage versus a winger getting back upwind. And as soon as I got on the V2s, I was like, oh.
Daniel Paronetto (50:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Same.
Elliot Leboe (50:52)
I'm equal or better now with the wingers in a lineup of getting back to the top. β So that was a yeah, a game changer as far as feeling like what I was telling you about being at a disadvantage in the water versus an advantage.
Daniel Paronetto (50:55)
Mm-hmm
That's a game changer.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (51:08)
Now I felt like, okay, I'm at an advantage in getting back to where I need to be. In the V1, you're like, as long as the wind holds, I'm pretty good. But if it dies, I'm like, oh, all of a sudden I'm going downwind and I'm losing. And the V2s didn't solve that, but it got much, much, much easier on the upwind angles.
Daniel Paronetto (51:19)
Mm-hmm.
How do you ride Elliot are you riding with a harness a hook are you hooking in I just ride Unhooked all the time. I think I got used to that feeling and I think there it's nice and I like the purity of it But also just you know, the tangling hazards that having additional things, know cause how you guys riding
Elliot Leboe (51:51)
I've gone through, thought I needed the harness, never used it, went with no harness. And where I ended up is if I'm riding waves, I never use a harness. I'm like, I don't ever feel like the pull is that hard where you're grunting and pulling. It's just kind of there and you're just kind of finessing it the whole time.
Daniel Paronetto (52:09)
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (52:17)
But since I've been experimenting with this up down, like how feasible this up down thing is, I've been going super lit up on a parawing I shouldn't be on just to see if that helps upwind, which means you gotta hook in, because you're lit. β Yeah, and so my first thought, what I did notice right away is you can go upwind better unhooked than you can hooked.
Daniel Paronetto (52:29)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it feels like a two line kite by then, doesn't it?
Explain that to me because everybody's like all my friends here are hooked in and I'm like, I don't know. have such a good feeling on the bar and knowing that sheet angle to make, you know, the parawing super efficient. And I think it's more about that than just, you know, leaning on it. It's just finding that angle that your parawing is performing to get that upwind angle on it.
Elliot Leboe (52:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I was of the same opinion of like, you got to hook in to crank up wind and really like leverage against this thing. And I would be hooked in and I'm like, man, my angle just, I'm just getting like, it felt like I was on a header the whole time, just getting knocked off the wind. So I unhooked and I just was like, 10 more degrees up wind. And I'm like, what? And then I hooked back in and I'm like, ah, and then I unhooked. I'm like.
Daniel Paronetto (53:13)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (53:37)
And then what I realized is that you actually, when you're that close hauled into the wind, you need to find, β like feather the thing a little bit and adjust to the gust. And then when you disconnect your body from the bar, you're able to manipulate the foil and...
Daniel Paronetto (53:57)
There's a yaw to it
maybe as well with the board.
Elliot Leboe (53:59)
Well there's a yaw
but there's actual instances when you come over a chop that you're able to pump and gain speed and when you're locked in and you're just pushing with your legs and you get a little wind shift the wing will stall and you don't get that ability to like use your pumping and go over the terrain. So it's almost like
Daniel Paronetto (54:04)
Mhm. Mhm.
I know what you're saying, like the suspension
kind of, yeah.
Elliot Leboe (54:22)
Yeah, so you end up, can do these little micro pumps upwind separate from the wing and then you're able to manipulate the wing instantly versus being hooked in. Granted, when you do need to rest your arms, you hook in. But if you're talking about efficiency upwind, almost every time I unhook, I'm able to point higher and go faster if I can just deal with the arm pressure.
Daniel Paronetto (54:32)
Mm-hmm.
Hehe.
Yeah, and I like that you said that because I've the first person that actually validated that for me because when I'm going upwind again, I'm not gonna go 10 kilometers upwind. You that's not what I'm doing. I'm gonna go up the peak and down again. That's all the upwind I need to do. β I live in a bay so we don't have a point break or anything like that, but we do have high performing areas in the bay that the bumps are a little bit, you know, steeper and we just wanna ride that section. So for me,
Instead of going downwind and just crossing that and then continuing on, I just go park my car there and I just do laps on that high performing spot. So, β and I also feel that going upwind, doing four tacks upwind does not tire me as much, you know, that's cool. tell me a little bit about your technique of, you know, stowing versus wadding. What are you guys doing in that regard? Like in wave, do you actually put it into a belt? Do you not do that? Do you just hold it?
Elliot Leboe (55:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
β Mixed I use the ozone the new ozone stashing Cynthia Cynthia kind of helped Cynthia actually before that she helped make that but she was custom sewing these ones with this like super stretchy pocket which made it super easy to just stuff it in there and Pull it out and which is really
Daniel Paronetto (55:53)
belt this stat yet's awesome.
It's so helpful, it's so good.
Elliot Leboe (56:14)
You don't really want to think too much about it. Like once you get it watered up, you just want to get it away and your hands free. If I'm way riding and the waves are good wave and I know it's going to push all the way through, I'll stash it and just roll. And if it looks like one of those waves is going to fizzle, I'll kind of hold it. And I'm, more of the back line. I like to scoop the lines from the back and then rip my wrist up to cinch the front lines.
Daniel Paronetto (56:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (56:42)
and then I just put the bar into the backhand and I just hold the thing in my backhand usually. The reason I hold it in the backhand is if I'm cutting say left, which is be into the wind, I can hide the wing behind my hip out of the wind a little bit. And so sometimes I'll do that. And then also too, when you're ready to redeploy, you simply hand the bar back to your front hand and just throw it out. And that's been pretty successful.
Daniel Paronetto (56:56)
That's a great tip.
Elliot Leboe (57:11)
as far as the number of times it comes up with out tangles. I know if I do it wrong, I can already tell it's going to be a bad deploy. Like I'll know if I didn't quite get the lines right or something, if it got wind. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that now I can, I'm like, Oh, it's one of those. And I'll just pop it, redeploy and get it again. And so
Daniel Paronetto (57:21)
Yeah, yeah, you prepare for it as well.
Sometimes it spins as well, there's a little death loop on you, you're like, shit, this is gonna be a terrible redeploy.
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (57:41)
you now I feel like it's pretty and then on downwinders obviously you're gonna you're just gonna send it I'll let it deploy it but what is nice I did notice on para winging downwind versus sup downwind is β the ability to like group up meaning like
Daniel Paronetto (57:45)
Mm-hmm.
That's so true. You're riding together
for more of time.
Elliot Leboe (58:09)
So we'll go, it'll be like Cynthia and Dan and there are a whole crew of us that will go. We'll all launch and scatter. And at some point, like I might be ahead looking back and someone fell, I'll just kick up, do like a little bit of a reach and we all group back up and then come back down. And so we're constantly just regrouping anytime we want. then sup downwind, it was kind of free for all, like send it.
Daniel Paronetto (58:31)
Mm-hmm.
It has
to be, it's a shame, but it has to be, man. Like sometimes if you fall, like it's going to take you 20 minutes to get up, especially if you're out already in the channel or something, you're like, God, this is, you know, I don't want to stop. know, like you just go, hope you make it. β and that vibe completely changed for myself as well. Like I still go downwind with my mates that are on the paddle and they, like the best one finishes the run and I finished the run with him and then I go back up when I finished with the second guy. And then I come back up when I go with the third and then like,
Elliot Leboe (58:38)
And yeah, it is.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (59:07)
whoever's really just starting out will go all the way back up and kind of you know, escort them in. And I do like four downwinders when they're just all still waiting for the last guy to come in anyway. And I'm just going back and forth and doing more runs.
Elliot Leboe (59:22)
Yeah, it's a whole different dynamic on the downwind scene and also the mindset of... At least the mindset here is when you're sup downwinding with your crew, everyone's like, ah, we're gonna go have fun, it'll be a fun run. I'm not racing. And then you get out there and just fucking to race.
Daniel Paronetto (59:42)
immediately
like you're a first up you're already looking behind who's coming
Elliot Leboe (59:45)
You
got up for you got up ahead of me I got a catch it turns into this like even though you're saying it's gonna be a fun run we're just gonna do turns everyone's everyone's just trying to like hey what was your time and so there's always this like what you know when you paddle out of Maliko it's like Kane and those guys can get up in flat waters pump out to the bumps and
When you're first doing Malikos, you'll paddle like a good five minutes out to get into the bumps, into the good bumps, and then start from there. And so it's kind of like, you know, the better you are, the earlier you take off, you know? So there's kind of like this pride thing of like, β I'll take off here. And you're like, you know, you're not as good as you, but how further out there always been this like thing of like, who could get up earlier than the next guy.
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:00:35)
And if you got up earlier, then you're in the lead. And then you got to catch me and I beat you because I got up earlier. So there's always this thing of like, I can get up early. But then suddenly the parawing that just got thrown out the window. Like I can get whenever I want. So that whole thing is eliminated and I can position myself anywhere I want. If I want to go out to the good bumps, I can. If I want to launch in here, I can. If I want to go hit the surf on the way down, I can. So suddenly your mindset of like,
Daniel Paronetto (1:00:38)
Hmm.
completely.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:01:05)
it being this unintentional race was just gone because because if anything you're trying to stay with everybody which becomes much easier so even if i get ahead i'll look back and i'll just be like yeah i'll kick up for a little bit and come back to the crew and then we reassemble and just all eventually get down but it's never really like racing yeah it's more of a
Daniel Paronetto (1:01:09)
Yeah.
Mhm.
A race. Yeah, I know what you mean.
It's, it's, and also for me, think just what not having a paddle in your hand, like that changed how, how much better I got and how quicker that happened because you can't dig yourself out of a hole with a paddle. You really have to make good decisions. If you make a bad decision, you don't have time to redeploy a parrying that stowed. And if you do, it might come out like a, you know,
dog's breakfast or whatever. reading the bumps, my bump reading went from here to here in a couple of sessions. Like I could see it in my videos. I'm like, my God. And turns as well, cause I don't care if I fall. I don't care. I'm trying to understand how sharp of a turn I can do with different foils and falling on my butt, like not caring just to push the gear. Cause I know I can get up. β but you said that down-winding is still number one.
Elliot Leboe (1:02:13)
Bye.
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:22)
sup downwinding is still a number one, or just downwinding in general, because you could downwind with a paraling.
Elliot Leboe (1:02:30)
I'm like, got this parowing dude here. Hey, just grab your parowing. No, you need to paddle. Yeah, just take this thing right away. Come on. It's just, yeah. It's just constant and it's a daily decision of am I going to paddle or am to parowing? Lately, lately it's just been, know what, I'm just going to parowing. It's always just like, and so somehow when you say that, you
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:35)
Yes.
Smaller board, smaller foil, what do you think?
It's a big one, man.
Alright, look.
Elliot Leboe (1:02:58)
the run becomes, it's going be easy. And you can get lulled into that. And for the most part, it is easy, but there are still kind of some safety things that.
Daniel Paronetto (1:03:00)
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:03:11)
If you look on the general social media, it's like, Oh, everyone can get on a little board and go a mile out and you get any way you want. And you're like, yeah, you can. But I've gotten myself into situations and everybody here at some point has gotten themselves into situations that people need to be aware of in making decisions on equipment and how far out they want to go. And, and that's what I'm saying. Like when we talk about board design,
Daniel Paronetto (1:03:28)
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:03:41)
It's really, it depends a lot on where you're riding, what types of conditions you're in. Meaning like the gorge, hey, if something goes wrong, I'll just swim right there. β If I'm out at Malika and a mile out and something goes wrong, I got other issues I gotta deal with. Like I need different types of equipment. And then the other thing that happens too is when you're calculating your volume,
Daniel Paronetto (1:03:48)
Yep.
Whatever. Yeah, chuck a skateboard on.
Elliot Leboe (1:04:11)
And if you're planning on parawing downwind, a lot of times I weigh this. I weigh 90 kilos, so I need this board. What they don't account for is your vest, your phone, your water, your snacks, your screwdrivers, all the other stuff. And then if you've ever weighed a rash guard wet versus dry, and then next thing you know, you weigh eight pounds more.
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:18)
Mm.
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:04:41)
And then the board that you just built, that was the perfect volume. And you get out into big wild water and you're sinking and falling. You're like, what happened? This board I tested.
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:48)
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:04:52)
You know in flat water or whatever is working great and next thing you know you're eight pounds heavier in wild water looking to take off and not enough wind and So you got to account for if you're planning on downwind is probably Punch the volume up a liter or two to account for what you're going to take with you On the on the downwinder, and I think a lot of people forget that they just figure out their weight, and that's the volume that I need But I notice a radical difference if I wear all my stuff I need for a downwinder versus
Daniel Paronetto (1:04:58)
Hmm.
Mm.
Elliot Leboe (1:05:22)
it off it's a big difference
Daniel Paronetto (1:05:25)
it's huge.
Yeah. And we all, we're always with, you know, four threes here. It's cold eight months of the year. It's freaking freezing. So I actually put five kilos, five liters onto my boards for it to be a one to one weight to volume ratio. And the, if I were to rejig my quiver now, cause I do have a downwind board, like an eight to, β by 19, 115 liters. That's my paddle board, but I don't.
Elliot Leboe (1:05:30)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:05:52)
I use it if I'm going out in the ocean and we're doing a big run because it's a safety device for me. I don't have an inflatable wing to float on. have nothing. The parowing doesn't give you anything. Getting a bigger parowing and stuffing it with you, it's not a guarantee that it's going to help you either because flying a parowing in 10 knots is the worst thing in the world. And you guys don't even know what that is because 10 knots doesn't exist in Maui, but β it's...
Elliot Leboe (1:06:02)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:20)
It's not a safety feature. Like there's people thinking about bringing, you know, a three piece paddle with them. I've, man, it's a lot of gear to take out. I'd rather just chuck on a big board. I'm used to down when you're on a big board. That's, you know, sub paddle, like it's fine. Um, and that's my safety. And obviously I have the comms, I have the, you know, PLBs, all that stuff as well. Um, and vests obviously and water, like even the vest and water, you have like a kilo of water in there. That's a liter just boom, you know.
Elliot Leboe (1:06:40)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:49)
It goes up pretty quick.
Elliot Leboe (1:06:51)
Yeah, that was one of the other points I was going to bring up is on board dimensions, it seems like there's two camps. There's people who already know how to sup downwind, picking up pair winging as a possible way to downwind without needing to paddle. And then there's people who have never sup downwind in their life have only winged.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:19)
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (1:07:20)
and are wanting to acquire a parawing to possibly downwind, learn without having to do the paddle thing. And if you're coming from sub downwind, you're used to balancing on like 17, 18 inch, 19 inches is wide for a downwind board. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:28)
Mm-hmm.
It's super wide and I kept it wide on purpose because I'm not that great.
Elliot Leboe (1:07:43)
But if a winger coming from winging, if you put them on a 19 board, well, they're freaking out. But if you come from downwind world, you're like, this thing's super stable. It's 19 wide, because I normally ride a 17 wide. So they're coming from two different angles. And then the other thing too is, chances are, if you downwind sup, you already own a big, nice downwind board, which will work perfect as a light wind paraling board.
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:50)
Yeah.
Mm. Mm.
Mm-hmm.
yet.
Elliot Leboe (1:08:10)
In other words, if the conditions are super mellow and it's super light, there's nothing that will get you up faster than a downwind board up to a certain point. If you're coming from winging, chances are the board you own is probably minus five and minus 10 liters from your weight. And you own that board and you want to get into parawing, but you don't really have a board.
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:16)
Mm-hmm.
25 wide.
Elliot Leboe (1:08:37)
In other words, you're going to be sinking on your wingboard. So you're going to need to fill in that gap of this new board, which is like not a downwind board, but a bigger than a mid-length prone, which is where we're landing now, which is not a prone, not a downwind. It's right in this zone that would cover a light wind wingboard.
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:38)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:09:04)
Obviously you're not going to paddle it downwind unless you're really, really good. But what I have found dimensionally is the boards that we're getting, that we're building for parawing work very well as long range prone surfboards. Meaning like, they're bigger than what we consider a mid-length. So Foil World considers a mid-length like under six feet.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:20)
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Five five to six
yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:09:32)
Under six feet
like in surf world. That's a short board surf world like a mid-length is like under eight, but more than six like in that six to seven ish range that's the true mid-length and so these boards are ending up in this zone that is bigger than a β prone board but smaller than a downwind board and they work really good for
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:36)
Yeah.
Mm-mm.
Elliot Leboe (1:10:00)
this long, I call them long range paddlers, meaning like if you have a break, like it's kind of a paddle out, it's maybe a 10 minute paddle out. And these boards, the parawing boards work insane as larger prone boards. You can't really duck dive them, but they paddle insanely good and they catch waves really early. So when you're thinking about buying a board and you're like,
Daniel Paronetto (1:10:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:10:26)
it can double as if you're in a place that has like a lot of area where you need to paddle really far to get to. β They can double, you know.
Daniel Paronetto (1:10:38)
Yeah, I'm thinking about my quiver and where it's gonna end up. I think ultimately I'm going to just update my 85 liter board to just a different shape keep it at 85 liters But just make it completely a lot wider than it is 18 is way too narrow for what I want with pair winging but then if I think about a really light wind powering board for 80 kilos, which is an average, you know right away, I guess
I think I would gravitate to something like a 6'2 to a 6'4 max β and 10 kilos over, sorry, 10 liters over my weight β to try to keep it thin still and maybe 21 wide max as well. I wouldn't want it too much wider than that, but that would be a sick board that you would get up on anything for para winging.
Elliot Leboe (1:11:33)
Yeah, I'm with you on this slightly wider than downwind numbers. β Like I said, a couple of months ago, I would have been like, β long narrows away. the more that I rides, it's not too much of a drawback to 20-ish, but you do gain a lot of stability. the main thing is it allows you to thin the rail profile, which allows it to cut better versus getting knocked.
Daniel Paronetto (1:11:38)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:12:02)
when the top hits it from the side. So that's a big thing is just that profile being able to get a little bit thinner. So you're gaining the volume through somewhat the width, somewhat the length. β And then it does seem too that the bottom
this bottom shape that we've been doing with Keith and I've been really fortunate to β get boards with Keith because he's just, he will do anything. never questions, never, if I come in there with like a crazy idea, he's like, let's do it. There's never like, it's not gonna work and so I'm really grateful that. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:12:31)
Yeah.
That's so cool.
Elliot Leboe (1:12:42)
I can walk in there and come up with these weird, sometimes very out there concepts and he's totally willing to do it and he will build them and test them and if it doesn't work he'll build another one. And that's how these concepts get built is you almost need to make bad stuff to learn from it to get to the good stuff. And what we're learning is we need a board that
Daniel Paronetto (1:12:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:13:08)
like I said, is stable but accelerates very fast. Meaning, just I need it to like respond now. And what downwind boards do is they have this big bevel and they're fairly thick. And so you engage them and you got to wait for it to come up to engage again. And so there's this, and if you look, you watch Jeremy Riggs do his thing, it's like, boom, boom.
Daniel Paronetto (1:13:12)
Yeah, like three, four pumps you're up.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:13:38)
boom, boom, We don't have time to like, but boom, boom, boom. We got to like boom, boom. We need to like hit it and go. And so with, with those types of boards, there's like a β lag. And when you hit it and it responds and that's largely the thickness and the bevel angle and the bevel shape. And so what we're trying to do is get the boards to respond faster to that engagement. And it's a
Daniel Paronetto (1:13:43)
Yeah.
Yep.
Like
just that release off the water. I complete it. Like, it's so cool to hear you talk about it because I think the pop-up with the power wing is a little bit different than what people think. And for me, what I try to do is push the board down and then kind of like hop up and release everything from it. And that's when I kind of pumped the wing as well to get that power, get an initial movement so I can get the foil to engage.
Elliot Leboe (1:14:07)
It's a...
Daniel Paronetto (1:14:30)
And then once I feel that I get a little bit of speed, it goes up so quick. It's so quick and it's three, four pumps. You're riding sometimes less, you know, if you get that release right and the energy of the water, the energy of the power wing, it will just propel you forward so quick.
Elliot Leboe (1:14:35)
Huh?
What I realized with Parawinging, which is very valuable, you learn very quickly if you have a bad board.
Daniel Paronetto (1:14:58)
Mm.
Elliot Leboe (1:14:58)
meaning
like if it's sticky, you know it's sticky. And if you try to test that board on a downwinder, like sometimes you get a lucky bump and you pop right in. like, I don't was the board good or was it just a lucky bump? And so you need to do it a bunch of times and be like, this board's sticky. Cause I popped up a bunch of times in a downwinder. Parawinging, you know there's nothing helping you.
Daniel Paronetto (1:15:00)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:15:23)
you're relying on that board so you know right away if it's a good board you know right away if it's a bad board you know right away. What I try to describe to people is it's very similar to a full suspension mountain bike the shape of the board. So you have your mountain bike you have a front and a back shot.
Daniel Paronetto (1:15:40)
Mmm
Elliot Leboe (1:15:48)
You put air in the back shock, makes it stiffer. know, air in the fork, makes it stiffer. You have tire pressure. If you run flat tire pressure, it goes through the bumps really nice. If you pump too much air in the tires, it just pings all over the place. So your rails is your air pressure.
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:16:08)
If I have flat tires, it looks like this. If I pump the tires too much, it looks like this. It's very vertical. And what that translates to is that when I go through the water, I'm getting knocked around. This top hitting this, if I deflate the tires on the rail, all of a sudden it tracks straight. It's exact same thing as a tire, tire pressure on a mountain bike. And so this, this, this rebound that I'm describing to you,
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:25)
Hmm
more forgiving.
Elliot Leboe (1:16:40)
There's a compression and a rebound rate and a back shock on a mountain bike. And we have the exact same thing on the downwind board. We have a compression, a rebound, and this affects how quickly it comes back. The thickness is how much travel do we have. And so what we're trying to do with these parawing boards is put air pressure in the back shock. Meaning like, get it. If you've ever done a pump track,
Daniel Paronetto (1:16:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:17:09)
on a downhill bike where it's just all... You want a really fast, quick reaction so you pump air pressure in the rear shock. And what you do is you change that bevel angle, all of a sudden you're getting a quick release. And when you take air out, it gets to be this like, vroom, and you're waiting. You're waiting for the rebound to happen. And that's all in the angle bevel, the angle length, and the thickness.
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:29)
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (1:17:38)
And so we're trying to get a quicker rebound is basically what an amounts to.
Daniel Paronetto (1:17:43)
That's such a good explanation
for it as well. β It's, yeah, look, I think, don't even know what's gonna happen after summer in the Northern Hemisphere, man. So much evolution will happen, because I think a lot of people will just buy a parawing to give it a crack in summer. Are you gonna travel to Hood this year or anything like that?
Elliot Leboe (1:18:03)
We, as family trip we might, β we went not last summer, the summer before. And so it's kind of in the talks, but not for sure yet. β I would love to, I mean, a place is just summertime. It's beautiful. There's all kinds of stuff to do even beyond foiling between just fishing. The coast there is actually really good for waves. A lot of people don't ever go out there. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:18:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Really?
Elliot Leboe (1:18:30)
And obviously up and down the river there's this, it's just, that's kind of the place to be during the summer, I feel like. But like I said, it's hard to leave Maui because it's just, every day it's just, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:18:33)
everywhere.
Yeah, you guys are spoiled up there. I'm going to be there doing
from the 14th to the 31st of July, β which is cool because Keith's going to be there with the V2 β of the Super K. So I'll definitely get a go on them and try it out. But what do you think will happen by the end of the year, man, with all this innovation? you think... Look, honestly, I have a prediction that by the end of this year, 20 to 30 % of wingers will all have a parawing. The next year, those numbers will double.
Elliot Leboe (1:18:47)
Yeah.
Yep.
Daniel Paronetto (1:19:11)
And I think it's for a lot of wingers, you reach a point where you stagnate and you're just a little stale in the progression. And if you're not chucking a backflip, what else are you going to do on the pair on the wing? And then the parawing is that first option for you to try to get into down-winding with some skills that you already have apart from learning the sail and learning how to fly. So I think that's where it's going to go and grow the most. But what are your forecasts?
Elliot Leboe (1:19:41)
It β varies almost the same. It will start with I'm going to buy one.
I'll just try it. β okay. I mean, I can ride a wave and I don't have the wing in my hand. maybe I should get a bigger one. It will start like that. And I am the same of the same opinion with the way I love winging. I do think like, I look at these kids now and what they're doing on the wing and the jumping and the wave riding. But now when I see somebody riding a wave and they're dragging their wing around with them, I'm like, just.
Daniel Paronetto (1:20:06)
crazy.
And not doing much, if you're using like
the wing to do some, you know, some jumps and, you know, clearing sections, that's incredible. But I agree. Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:20:18)
I mean, yeah, 100%. Yeah, the stuff that cash is doing and those guys,
unbelievable. I'm not like those guys are on a whole nother level. but when I see somebody riding away with the wing in their hand, I'm like, if you just get, you can get rid of that wing, just grab this and put it away. And then, and then it's a whole nother can of worms as far as the feeling goes. and some people,
Daniel Paronetto (1:20:29)
Mmm.
Gonna get a 50 % more fun straight away.
Hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:20:48)
get like for me and you, saw it and instantly knew what to do with it. And it's like, it's like.
Daniel Paronetto (1:20:52)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:20:56)
When I tell people it's like you discovered, they're like, hey, we figured out this way to fly to the moon. Are you interested? Oh, no. We're just going to hang out here. Someday maybe we'll just fly up there. OK, well, if you want to fly to the moon, it's right here. We figured it out. You can do it. And so some people will be like, yeah, I'm in. Day one. And for other people, it takes them a little while to kind of be convinced about it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:06)
Yeah, Earth is good.
Yep.
Elliot Leboe (1:21:23)
What I feel like is gonna happen is this. You will buy as a sup down winder. There's a little bit of like, sup down winders. Like, I don't know. wait. Well, they're not anti-parrowing, but they're kinda like, well you're not paddling up, so.
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:38)
Mm-hmm. Because they downwind already, so they're like, what?
Elliot Leboe (1:21:49)
you're over here not you know this getting to be a little bit of like well I'm a paddler I'm not a parowinger
Daniel Paronetto (1:21:54)
Yeah, I like that I know how to
paddle, but I choose the Paraling so they can just shut up.
Elliot Leboe (1:21:58)
Well,
so that brings me to my point. Which is in here, right, this is the Vykobe I used to suck down wind and stashed in here is, if I break my paddle, it is a 2.2 Maliko which weighs absolutely nothing and the bar is this big and it fits in here. It doesn't weigh anything.
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:17)
trusty old beauty.
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:22:28)
So when you snap your paddle a mile out, you got this. When you get injured and you cut yourself and you need to get in to the lifeguard, put it in the air. When you're in M2M and M2O and the bumps are like well overhead and your boat left you, kick it up in the air. Go find them. Let them find you. Like, why would you not have that?
Daniel Paronetto (1:22:32)
Safety device.
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:22:57)
It weighs nothing. understand if it was a weight penalty, but if you snap your paddle, if you get in trouble and you can't physically paddle and you need to get to somebody or somebody needs to locate you, why would you not have a para wing? And so I feel like even if you don't want a para wing, if you're a sup down winder as a safety device, you should just have one on you. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:23:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, true.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:23:26)
if it doesn't inhibit you. And I don't think right now there's that two two Maliko weighs nothing and it just fits. So I feel like the sub down winders will have them on them, even if they don't want to ever learn to parawing as a safety device. β And then eventually they're going to be like, I can get up at this thing. Yeah. maybe I should just get this.
Daniel Paronetto (1:23:31)
That's nothing.
Mmm.
You know what's gonna happen? They're gonna go out and it's gonna be, you know,
I'm just gonna try it once. And then they chuck on a 50 liter board, 80 liter board, and they're gonna be, what is, I remember the feeling of my first time going downwind on my 85 liter board. And I was screaming, laughing, just everything at the same time, feeling like this is what it should be because there was nothing else I could do apart from turns. There was.
Elliot Leboe (1:23:55)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:24:16)
There was nothing else that my brain told me to do apart from like, I gotta rip this thing now. And it was the best feeling I've ever felt. ever since I'm like, I've touched the paddle maybe two or three times since September last year.
Elliot Leboe (1:24:32)
Yeah, have to, I force myself to paddle to maintain it because I mean, I'm planning on doing M2M and paddle a MUA, not M2O. I did M2M last year. Yeah, I'll do it again. I did it last year. So, you you need to be banging out runs and paddling. If you're not paddling, you need to be in good shape. So I talked to Alex at Gura about this the other day. I'm like,
Daniel Paronetto (1:24:37)
Mm-hmm.
This year?
100%.
Elliot Leboe (1:24:57)
Are we just going to like get on the start line and just grab the pair of wings and be like, screw it, let's go. And so the organizer, we're like, where do we, where does a parawing fit in? It's not winging, it's not paddling. It's going to be its own category and people will pair wing across. And, and we're trying to figure out like, is it going to be, it will be a thing for crossings. Are you going to pair wing across or paddle across? β
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:01)
Aw screw this, yeah.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:25:26)
The question is, is what tactic do take? Because you can get to the Molokai side and the wind can shut down and you are dead in the water. But you'd be dead in the water with a wing. you know, it's like that kind of glass where you're not getting up no matter what you're on. So then does it turn into like parawing with my paddle on my back so that can get up if I need, which puts me back on a downwind board.
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:29)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:25:55)
So there's this kind of gray area we're trying to figure out. is it, it, yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:25:58)
That's pretty cool though as a category because that's strategy as well. What fall are you going to be using? Do you pack a second
parawing with you? Would it help? I don't know. It's flat. Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:26:06)
Yeah, you'd have to, β
you'd probably take skip a size, meaning like if it was three, two, whether I'd take a four, seven, yeah. And just throw that in as reserve shoot. If it really went down, you'd have a way out that you could at least get up. And I think you'd have to do that. And if you didn't do that, you'd be like risking it. β The other thing.
Daniel Paronetto (1:26:14)
Go five. Yeah, yeah.
Mm.
So the MTM
will have a parowind category this year.
Elliot Leboe (1:26:35)
Well, we were just going to if a bunch of us decided we're just going to do it and we don't know where it's going to there's not an official parowing category because she doesn't even know that sports exists Claire and it's so new that no one's really ever crossed the channel on them. So I'm signed up to to stop it. We all signed up to stop, but there's a bunch of us that are like, hey, maybe we just if we just send it on the pair of you can see what happens.
Daniel Paronetto (1:26:45)
Yeah.
be cool I think it fits β
the rogues.
Everybody's gonna be like fuck this parrying
thing. They're you gonna be flying before everybody else. They'll be like, all right, maybe I'll try it
Elliot Leboe (1:27:05)
Yeah, exactly.
But on the side note, what I was thinking about is like, and I'm not racer guy at all, but so the problem with these downwind races, there's no way to cover them. Like we just see these little snippets. We get the start, someone drones the start, someone's like, this one in the middle and then the end, this is the winner. And here's the video, it's a minute long. And that was the crossing.
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:21)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:27:35)
But there's, we haven't had anything that we could set a course up and parawing up to a down, like set up a downwinder where we just crank up to an upwind buoy and then you round this buoy, you have to stow and then you're downwinding all and you, right.
Daniel Paronetto (1:27:42)
Mm-hmm.
Like a 5K upwind run going down, maybe a couple laps
of that.
Elliot Leboe (1:28:04)
I think in winging they do that where you have to flag the wing out or something and pump down wind. But you literally round this mark and you have to stow and the only way you could pop back up or put it back up in the air is if you're off foil.
Daniel Paronetto (1:28:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you have to start from scratch,
Elliot Leboe (1:28:21)
It would be pretty interesting because you need to have downwind skills mixed with parawing skills and then you could finally get this whole downwind scene into a course that is that you could actually shoot and get like some sort of β a idea of like
Daniel Paronetto (1:28:31)
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:28:39)
It's basically a way to get a downwinder into a zone that is viewable by either public or we get cameras on it and like the whole thing could be documented.
Daniel Paronetto (1:28:44)
Yeah.
That'd be awesome because I mean, I saw the
races up in β Europe. Boz was organizing a couple of races with the parowing, a course race, and that's not my thing, the racing thing, but I can see the upwind because that's part of that. That's parawinging for me going upwind and then enjoying a downwind run and combining those two and maybe doing two laps or three laps of a 5k run. That's a 30k total course. That's awesome.
Elliot Leboe (1:29:15)
Yeah, and then you, I mean, what front wind would you take? I don't know. I'd have to take something I know I can pump and stay on foil the whole downwind, but it's got to be fast this way. So there's kind of like, I don't, it hasn't been done before, but I feel like there's maybe going to be some of the events that are like that where finally we can get like a downwind type event.
Daniel Paronetto (1:29:18)
Mmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:29:36)
in an area that is we could maybe shoot it or you know people can see see people coming down wind.
Daniel Paronetto (1:29:37)
Mm-hmm.
let's, let's keep this idea going, man. This is, this is such, β a
great format for like you said, people can watch it from a, from a cliff somewhere and they could see the whole thing unfold. That's cool.
Elliot Leboe (1:29:50)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And then, you know, your skill set has to be, you have to know how to downwind to read bumps downwind. You also have to know how to pair wing upwind. So it brings in a kind of a cool mix of, I mean, a lot of us know how to do all that already, but β I mean, right now, if you're a downwinder,
Daniel Paronetto (1:29:59)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:30:13)
some downwinders never wing or they don't, they never go up when they're just downwinders and they race on downwind. So anyway, that was what I was thinking is what could be a cool, think I, yeah, I just made a couple of notes on,
Daniel Paronetto (1:30:15)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Elliot Leboe (1:30:35)
I mean, I guess the last thing was just like, β we're just finding that the parawing is a very easy and quick way to test β not only downwind boards, but test, roll through a bunch of different front wings and see how they feel in a downwind scenario without having to commit to the whole downwind. So we're using the parawing as a way to test boards.
Daniel Paronetto (1:30:49)
gear. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:30:59)
β specifically too for downwind because if they work good getting up pair winging chances are they will paddle up very easily too.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:07)
Yeah, and
I think for me, really true and that, that, you know, extends onto foils because I can only really feel a foil if I'm going downwind or surfing. If I'm, you know, if I'm winging something, everything feels incredible. I'm like, yeah, it's fine. But as soon as I go downwind, I'm like, I can feel the limitations, the bottom end, top end, how it turns. And then like, okay, I know the characteristics of this foil. β and for testing gear, a hundred percent.
Elliot Leboe (1:31:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, you can. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:36)
You can do so much. β I don't know how much you could actually do on the water by changing front wings, but you can definitely get a lot done in a day.
Elliot Leboe (1:31:36)
Yeah.
Yeah, versus committing to a whole downwind run and then you figure out, this tune wrong. We'll go back up to the top and try it again. You can kind of get these little mini runs in, get an idea of what's going on, make a change, go right back out and get into that same β zone where those bumps were and get it. So we're using it in that way too, β as far as the board and front wing development, but mostly on the downwind side. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:31:49)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Dude, I have one more question for you before we go. And I know this is a long chat, but I don't care. you know, there's a lot of good nuggets in there. β you've watched probably, you know, the best board sports athletes, ride who are the guys that are really, β you know, inspiring you today in para winging so people can maybe chase them up and, and get a little bit of that froth from them.
Elliot Leboe (1:32:41)
β I mean there's just a big crew of us that are all at this as far as like one on the I mean on the foiling side for me Kane I always he pair wings too even though he probably doesn't lot of people don't know that he sent a few runs β
He's kind of focused on the M2M M2O right now. So he's definitely in paddle mode right now. But I mean, and he is our nephew. I'm like, of course, but yeah, I mean, as far as like, I'm really, my mindset is very wanting to find ways to make the equipment better and make my, β make it easier for me to, to.
Daniel Paronetto (1:33:06)
And the race is the end.
Little bias there
Elliot Leboe (1:33:33)
be in the water more. And so I'm constantly in my head thinking of gear. And that went back to the kite days. And Cain has that similar mindset of just always tweaking stuff, trying to find like a little bit of extra out of this or that. But he's on a whole other level where...
Daniel Paronetto (1:33:34)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:33:52)
He'll show me stuff and I'm like, how did you think of that? You know, and he's just got the brain for it. And it just, and at such a young age too, cause I know when I was his age, I was definitely not designing portals. I is a 23 or right. I I definitely at that age was not that smart doing what he's doing right now. So.
Daniel Paronetto (1:33:57)
Yeah.
How old is Cain? I don't even know.
Yeah. Young.
Yeah. He, look, he,
to me as well, like just even like watching him ride effortless, it starts these like it's the best. Like I come from, like I said, you know, that era that are watching Lou, like Andre Philippe, when he came out, I was like, what is it? He was the man for me for so long, just because of the style. Um, and then I think Kane, when I watch him foil, I'm like, God, that's, that's how it should look. Effortless and beautiful, you know?
Elliot Leboe (1:34:22)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but he has a very, the equipment he comes up with, he's very aware of the beginner or people that are not top level. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:34:53)
Mhm.
Elliot Leboe (1:34:56)
So he has a good understanding of what people, I mean, I would call myself like intermediate, you know, I'm not like pro level foiler, but we go all the time. So like at something at our level, he understands what we need. So on the gear development side and obviously like having Kai β grasp onto the pair wing and take it to jaws, that was kind of a big thing because we had taught. β
Daniel Paronetto (1:35:09)
Mhm.
Did you film that one? That wave?
Elliot Leboe (1:35:23)
Yeah, and I had interviewed him earlier on when he just got his parawing. I'm like, is this Jaws thing? You know, and he's like, I don't know. And like, yeah, we don't know. Someone needs to go test it to figure out is this, is this a legitimate thing? So that's going to progress too on, on, on, I don't know. Is it possible to parawing into it and just stitch it and then you're good to go? So.
Daniel Paronetto (1:35:31)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
I thought he was
gonna get skunked on that one because he like depowered it but it was flapping everywhere. I'm like, oh my God, because it does create a lot of drag even though people say it doesn't. If you're just holding it and it's not really stowed properly or just wadded up properly, it does cause a bit of drag. And I was watching him go down this face. I'm like, he's not gonna make it, he's not gonna make it. And he just pulled out of it. I'm like, oh my God. But I guess he's at a point now where he's really happy with his foils.
which took a little bit of time to get into that. He knows his gear now, so yeah, I can't wait to see what he's gonna do with it.
Elliot Leboe (1:36:19)
Yeah.
Yeah, so I mean, I couldn't say there's like any one particular, β there's just a really β core group of us out here that are really into it. And we love doing it every day. And we're just trying to, we're in the same boat as everyone else across the world. And like I said, this forum in particular that you do, these podcasts β will help people.
Daniel Paronetto (1:36:38)
Mm-hmm.
Elliot Leboe (1:36:52)
wherever they're at, whatever stage they're at as far as getting into it. And then, like I said, it just reaffirms a lot of the stuff you say. I have the exact same feelings. I'm like, okay, yeah, so that was correct. Whatever it is.
Daniel Paronetto (1:37:06)
Yeah.
And that's purpose of this thing.
When I started downwind, β SUP downwinding, I filmed my 10 first sessions and I've never posted anything about it because I didn't have time to edit videos or anything like that. And then changed careers now, I'm a firefighter, I work four days, I'm off four days, I have all the time in the world. And I filmed my first parawing sessions and I put them all online. Like the first one, like...
After that, my 10th one, I stopped counting them and they just continued on with other things. But I've learned just as much as I think people have learned from just watching me get skunked out there from these conversations. β And I think I feel like I have a little bit of a responsibility now to document a little bit about how the sport evolved. I'm very happy that Greg got back to me. I'm going to chat with Greg next β on the 25th, a few days from now.
And I'm dying to get Sam on the podcast as well because, I feel like he's a little bit of an introvert. He's been, he said yes once and then he kind of disappeared. And if you see him on the beach, just tell them, come on. Cause I just, I feel like we need to, you know, pay our respects to him because without him, we wouldn't be here. And, and I think, I don't think Greg would have thought everything that he thought about without Sam, you know.
Elliot Leboe (1:38:06)
Yeah, get sound, it would be awesome too.
I will, I'll tell you, you gotta go, yeah. Yeah, I will.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%.
Daniel Paronetto (1:38:33)
So if you do see them, just say, hey, foilrat chasing you.
Elliot Leboe (1:38:33)
so true. I will. I'll
tell him, yeah. I agree with you totally on that though.
Daniel Paronetto (1:38:41)
Yeah. β
So, dude, look, I feel like we could keep talking another hour, but look, let's...
Elliot Leboe (1:38:45)
Yeah, we could.
Let's go again. I don't know, do episode two at some point. But yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:38:51)
Yeah, look, I think after summer, I'll
touch base again, because it's going to be a different industry. By the end of the year, we'll have so much innovation. And if you're willing to come back on, man, I would love to have you chat about other things and whatever you're working on. If you ever need to get the word out about anything that you're doing, let me know, man. Having you here is an honor. I've been following you directly and indirectly for a long time from kite surfing, not even knowing that you had
Elliot Leboe (1:38:57)
Yeah.
Yeah. definitely. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:39:20)
Filmed videos that changed my life in a very big way β So thank you man like for everything that you've done for the sport and and this just good energy that you bring to to parowing as well
Elliot Leboe (1:39:32)
Awesome man, thank you. Thanks for having me.
