Daniel Paronetto (00:00)
Today we have Wen the tutor. That was my first setup and then I went to a doc and I ran off the doc and jumped on it. This guy on Instagram, Damien Leroy. I wonder if he would be down to make some videos together. And that's when we started the YouTube channel. Damwinding is the most magical thing you can do. So the power wing is that tool that allows you to get into the magic. If anyone was starting today,
I would say, you why are you getting into downwind sub-following? You know, skip the struggle and just go to the fun. When you, when you first get going, you know, you get your power wing up and you try to just keep it stable, you know, you have to be so precise. The challenge now is to learn how to read the bumps. Can you describe to us what are you looking for? You have a lot of waves that are, you know, one here and then one slightly offset right there and then they move and then they disappear and then they reappear.
What makes a huge difference is that... It's the first time I've heard someone talk about it that way, and I think it's the perfect way for you to understand it. But the main thing to me is, you... Danny makes it super easy. To back up. So if you have 20 knots, you take the paddle, you take the power ring.
Daniel Paronetto (01:26)
Welcome to the LabRat for the podcast. My name is Dan and today we have Gwen Le Tuteur. Is that pronounced properly?
Gwen (01:35)
Let you tour, yeah, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (01:36)
Le Tuteur.
Gwen is a video creator, he's a foil instructor and coach, β and also now really involved in para-winging and testing some products. So welcome to the podcast, Gwen.
Gwen (01:48)
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited.
Daniel Paronetto (01:51)
going to get into parowinging for sure and understand everything that you've been using. You've been testing the new V2 from BRM, which I'm really keen to understand the differences of all those models. But before that, let's talk a little bit about you. We'll just talk about your history in sports, how you got into foiling, if there's anything that you did in the past before that. You mentioned before we started recording that you...
Did some time here in Australia in the Sea Shepherd, which I think is a great experience. So let's see where it all started. Tell us a little bit about your history in sports.
Gwen (02:25)
Yeah, so, you I grew up in France, in Brittany. So it's on the west coast of France. You know, I grew up near the coast. So I did some windsurfing and some surfing growing up, but I wouldn't say I was good β by any means. know, like windsurfing, I could pretty much get on plane and jibe β and then surfing, I mean, just, you know, right away, but not anything too exciting.
So that's kind of like what I did growing up. I played all the sports, but I was always very passionate about water sports, especially looking at magazines of people riding in beautiful places, in board shorts. Brittany is quite rainy.
And so, you it's not the most like, you know, beautiful. I mean, it is beautiful, you know, but it's not, you you're not writing in both shorts and it's not like how I, know. So, so I kind of like, you know, grew up with, you know, dreaming of those magazines. But, you know, I just didn't travel, you know, that much. So one way that, you know, I was thinking that would get me to travel was to go to, um,
like Marine Engineering School to work on ships, because when you work on ships, you travel around the world, you see many places. So that's what I did. Unfortunately, I got kind of like busy and actually didn't even really ride. I traveled the world on the ocean, literally zero riding. But it was still a really amazing experience, because I got to work with Sea Shepherd.
Daniel Paronetto (03:48)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, that's awesome.
Gwen (04:17)
Non-profit that does ocean conservation. So the ocean has always been like, you know, very important, you know part of my life β and in working with sea shepherd was like a way to You know kind of like, know actively protect, know something that you know, I love β And and and that's how I got to go to Australia You know to Sydney first and then you know Melbourne
Daniel Paronetto (04:35)
That's really cool.
Gwen (04:46)
And we would go to Antarctica to protect whales and then come back, know, Australia was kind of like the base and then the season during the whaling season we would go to Antarctica.
Daniel Paronetto (04:54)
busy.
Dude, what was that like? Like, what did you actually do on the boat? Like, you would wake up and you would protect whales. What is that like?
Gwen (05:04)
So, you know, there is a TV show about it actually and they make it of course, you know, very exciting. It's not at all, you know, like the daily life. It's, you know, it's a ship. you know, for me, my role was, I was an engineer. So I'm like in the engine room, making sure everything is running. You know, the ship is kind of like a small city on the water. So, you know, you have an engine to get moving, but you also need to get power. You need to get water. You know, there's a lot of...
Daniel Paronetto (05:07)
Mm-hmm.
You
Gwen (05:34)
things involved around living on a ship for months. So that was my role. And it's definitely not, know, know, like the exciting part of like β living at sea, you think like you're driving the boat, you look at the ocean all day. For me, I was like down in the engine room. It's like so loud. It's, you know, it's like, it was not.
Daniel Paronetto (05:37)
Mm.
in here.
I thought you were gonna
be on like a little boat with like a spear like get away from the whale!
Gwen (06:02)
Yeah Me too. That's what I was thinking,
you know, but it's not all what I was and and so but you know, know, ultimately, you know the mission and what you do is fulfilling, you know on its own and then you know in terms of like know, like how like the real life happens, you know on the ship is you know in In in a tv show, you know, they show we are like chasing, you know, like whalers and getting after them well those
Chase happened at super slow speed, like 10 knots over two weeks. We follow each other for two weeks. And there is barely any movement. So it's not, in real life, it's not as exciting as the TV show, but yeah, the mission is why you do it.
Daniel Paronetto (06:36)
Thanks.
Amazing cause man.
Gwen (06:57)
So that's, know, ultimately, that's where I met my wife and that's how I ended up moving to the US because otherwise I would have never, you know, moved out of France. Before I actually joined Sea Shepherd, I didn't speak English at all. So I learned to speak English, you know, on the ship and then, you know, met an American girl and she's from Idaho and now she's my wife. And that's how I ended up in Idaho out of...
Daniel Paronetto (07:17)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (07:27)
all the places in the world.
Daniel Paronetto (07:28)
Amazing. That's, that's such a cool story though, man.
and during your time either here in Australia or when you were back, when did, when did foiling get into the picture for you?
Gwen (07:39)
Well, I remember when I was on the ship, I did some kiting when I was on the ship. β I could not tell you the spot, but around Melbourne, went and kited a few times. β But I think that's when we started to see some foiling. And that's maybe when we saw the first clips of kylenny foiling. β
And I was just blown away. I was like, I wanna do this so bad. But I was busy and I didn't have the money so that really didn't come. Between the first time I saw foiling and the first time I tried foiling, there was probably, I don't know, like three, four years that happened in between. And then the first foil I got, I got it used, it was...
Daniel Paronetto (08:22)
Wow, okay. Mm-hmm.
Gwen (08:32)
It was a prototype. I didn't know really anything about foiling, about foils, know? And so I actually got lucky because I think it was a pretty good one to learn. It was β a Takuma, I think Takuma V100 or something, the first surf foil, kind of like spoon-like foil, super thick.
Daniel Paronetto (08:55)
Nice.
Gwen (08:57)
low aspect, maybe five aspect ratio or something, or maybe four, I don't know. And so the first time I got it, I could only buy the foil. I couldn't buy anything else. I got, well, I got like literally a 20 box like wake board. And I removed the straps.
Daniel Paronetto (09:01)
Yep.
Just strap it on and just hold it on your chest.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (09:24)
and I drilled through it and I mounted it and on the wakeboard there was no deck pad, so I got a shower mat that I duct taped on the burn. And then I drilled a hole on the nose and I put a small rope tying the nose to the base of the mast because I was like, that thing is gonna break. And if it breaks in two pieces, I wanna make sure that the piece from the front,
Daniel Paronetto (09:34)
I love it.
Yeah.
Gwen (09:51)
stays attached to the back, so it still floats. And that's how, that's how, you know, that was my first setup. And then what I did, I didn't know anything about it, you know, totally underestimated how hard it was. I went to a dock and I ran off the dock and jumped on it for...
Daniel Paronetto (10:10)
when you tried duck
starting, was the first thing you tried on it.
Gwen (10:13)
That was literally the very first time I put my feet on the foil and of course, know zero success absolutely zero Didn't get you know one, you know, like didn't get two seconds of glide Like didn't get two pumps in a row like nothing just jumped on it and right away fall fall back one So then I realized alright, you know that this is not the way I'm gonna learn foiling so then I you know, I knew how to kite so
Daniel Paronetto (10:17)
So hard.
Mm.
Hmm.
Gwen (10:44)
I learned kite foiling with a kite. And so that was how I first got into foiling. And at that point I was living in Idaho β all year round. it's on the lake and it's the type of place where the wind is very unpredictable. It's sometimes it's up and sometimes it's down. The forecast doesn't really tell you much and you kind of like go with when you start, when the trees start moving, you go.
Daniel Paronetto (10:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Gwen (11:13)
And then at some point it's gonna die, except with skyd foiling, when you are out there and it dies, it's really like a pain. out of like, I would say in over 50 % of my sessions, I would come back swimming. So I got really good at self-rescue. I mean, I had it like so dialed and that was β my first experience foiling. And then I went to Florida.
Daniel Paronetto (11:28)
my god.
Yep.
Gwen (11:42)
For a brief weekend and I had been following This guy on Instagram Damien Leroy. He was making some like pretty fun content Pretty unique I would say like out of like what you would see like on social media And I was like, wow, like this guy is like so cool. Like he's he's always doing some like crazy like funny stuff, you know, and So I reached out to him. I was I had a camera and I was making some videos. I was like
Daniel Paronetto (11:49)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (12:11)
I wonder if he would be down to make some videos together. And I didn't really expect he would reply, because the guy was world champion in kiting. I was nobody from Idaho. And he replied and he was stoked. And so the weekend I was in Florida, it lined up that we had some win. We met up, we made a video. And we really connected. We had a good vibe.
Daniel Paronetto (12:21)
Yeah.
That's cool.
Gwen (12:40)
I made a video and he really loved it. And so then that's when I told him like, you know, maybe what do you think about like starting a YouTube channel together? β and and he was down and so then that's when I started to like Spend more time in Florida Because we have my wife my wife sister lives there. So we had a place to kind of like crash β And that's when we started the YouTube channel, but you know at the beginning I didn't really you know, right that much β
Daniel Paronetto (12:47)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (13:08)
You that well at all, you know, so it's like I was filming, you know You would never see me on any of the videos because also we like it was mostly winging I had Damien introduced me to winging. So when we started the videos, I was a total beginner So
Daniel Paronetto (13:19)
Nice.
Man, your progression
was extremely fast.
Gwen (13:27)
Yeah, yeah, mean, yeah, I got, you know, I think it was a good fit for me. so I β learned, you know, filming the videos, that's kind of like, you know, I learned how to ride. And then Damien kind of like, you know, got me one day, like in front of the camera. And then I slowly got involved and yeah, that's how it all started.
Daniel Paronetto (13:53)
What a cool story, man. I had no idea that, β you know, you were just chasing that kind of interaction with Damon. thought you guys already knew each other or something like that, but it's so cool how this industry works, man. Everybody's just really approachable no matter who they are. Like they, you know, even getting in touch with you, like you responded in like three minutes. Yeah, man, let's do a podcast. You know, like there's no barrier to talking to anyone and everybody's very open to share information and, like just supporting the community. That's cool, man.
Gwen (14:23)
for sure. mean, you know, growing up, it was kind of like the era of Robin Nash, you know, and he would come to France, compete, and he was like, I mean, a rock star, you know. And so, you know, I always saw this world as like something that, you know, I would never really be a part of. It was like, you know, it was, you know, kind of, I don't know, like, just like those guys are like legends, you know.
Daniel Paronetto (14:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Gwen (14:51)
And slowly, you I got involved in a sport and I got to meet a lot of those people, you know, I got to meet, you know, Robbie and it just blew me away how like those guys are just, you know, like normal people like, you know, when you hang out with them. I mean, of course they are like legend in what they do, but...
Daniel Paronetto (15:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gwen (15:12)
You can hang out with them. You can like ride with them, you know It's something like not in every sport you get that, you know, if you're going to soccer or something You never gonna get to play with the top guys, you know, but but you know what we do you go out and you have a session with with some of the top riders in the world and that's amazing, you
Daniel Paronetto (15:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's cool man. then, so you started kite foiling, you went into winging and spend a lot of time on winging. think you, it's probably, is that your main discipline still today or not?
Gwen (15:41)
No,
well, winging, know, so I kind of get, I'm the type of guy, I get very focused on one thing, you know, like I have hard time diversifying or something, but so I got into winging, full on winging, like wing, it was only winging for me. And then slowly I would say, you know, downwinding, I wasn't an early like,
Daniel Paronetto (15:49)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (16:11)
guy into like downwinding, I was kind of like, downwinding came around the time where like I was doing some beach starts. So it was like running off the beach and pumping out and riding some waves or, and I was like, why would I ever want a big bird where I can just have my tiny bird?
Daniel Paronetto (16:13)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (16:35)
So I didn't really see downwinding. And also I was in Florida, and I was like, you it's not gonna work in Florida. You know, not in Maui, I'm not in Hood River. But then, you know, I think, you know, I started seeing more clips of downwinding, people doing it on lakes. I have actually a friend.
Daniel Paronetto (16:41)
Hmm.
Yep.
Gwen (16:54)
He's he's kind of like one of the guy that convinced me that you know, was potential in down winning He's from Montana and he down wins on lakes and I was like what that's crazy, you know, it's it's really something, you know, maybe you can I could do in in in Florida and then I really you know got into it and realized the potential and and
And so that then became the main thing I want to do. And to this day, would say down winning is the thing that I get the most excited about for sure.
Daniel Paronetto (17:27)
Interesting, interesting. Yeah, I mean, I've seen you paddle up every sort of board and every sort of foil on the face of the universe. like, yeah, you can, I can definitely see how you get immersed in the one discipline when you get into it. β So, and now you're dabbling with power winging. So where did that interest come from? Because, you know, downwinding is, is probably in my opinion as well, the best discipline in foiling going downwind for an hour.
Gwen (17:35)
You
Daniel Paronetto (17:57)
surfing, there's nothing that compares to it. But now we have the pair winging, which is another tool for us to do that. Where did the interest come on your side to give that one a crack?
Gwen (18:10)
So, the interesting thing is, the PowerWing came around and I already had the downwind sub-foiling figured out. So I could ride small falls, no problem. I never really had any trouble. I never really had bad sessions downwinding. So I would say when the PowerWing came around, I wasn't that...
Convinced, know, I was you know, was like, well, you know, yes for sure. It's a way to do it But you know, I don't need to I mean I have the paddle it works great for me, you know so I it didn't really convince me right away, but You know then you know, got I got to try it and and You know ultimately it was really like the feeling of being about one rider a smaller burn
Foil, you I can write the same size foil, you know, that didn't really make a difference for me, but a smaller burn. And the fact that your entire setup is smaller, I mean, traveling with a downwind burn and a paddle sucks. traveling with a mid-length that you can use for winging, you can use for prone, could even use for dock styling if you wanted to. And then now you can go downwind with it.
Daniel Paronetto (19:20)
Yeah. Yep.
Perfect.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (19:36)
So now you have one bar that you can do it all. β I would say that's the aspect that really got my attention. And then the other thing is, I do a lot of teaching in person and online through YouTube. And I realized that downwind subfoiling is just incredibly hard. It's so hard and it's a bummer because...
Daniel Paronetto (19:59)
It's so hard, man. It's so hard.
Gwen (20:04)
Downwind is the most magical thing you can do. mean, it's so fun. And so it's a bummer that downwind sub-falling makes it so hard, you know, because now people don't get to experience it or people just don't get to the point where they can experience it in a way that like, you know, they are convinced. Yeah, and they are like having fun, you know. It's like a lot of people are like still in the stage of like downwind sub-falling when it's so hard, they get so little victories, you know, it's mostly struggle.
Daniel Paronetto (20:13)
Hmm.
It's relaxed. You know, yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (20:34)
And yeah, like, you know, that doesn't make, I mean, unless you are someone that really enjoys suffering and struggling, it doesn't make it that fun, you know, but down-winding is the most fun. And I want people to truly experience that. And so the Powerwing, you know, to me is that tool that allows you to get into the magic. if anyone was starting today getting into down-winding,
Daniel Paronetto (20:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gwen (21:03)
I would say, why are you getting into downwind sub-falling? I do it, I love it. But skip the struggle and just go to the fun. It's the same thing. Once you are up and going, you pack it away, it's literally the same fun, if not better, if you can ride a smaller bond.
Daniel Paronetto (21:06)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, look, I think that's such a great point when, because I learned how to, β sub paddle as well and God, was hard. took me like six months to be in a place where, doing consistently, like not doing anything else, just focusing on it to be in a place where I was like, all right, I'm going to go out and I'm not going to swim for an hour and a half. You know, you know, you're going to get up. It took me a lot of time to get to that confidence level. And I think if you have either a kiting background or if you have a winging background,
The parrowing comes quick. It comes to you very quickly. I mean, as a kiter, we know lines. We were not intimidated by those lines. And as a winger, you have that balance on the board. You're able to hold something in a pendulum and ultimately you'll get going. You'll learn how to fly and get going. And it allows the wingers to get into down-winding without really changing their gear. Sure, a mid-length is perfect and a lot of wingers already have mid-lengths, but if you have a wing board and you buy
a four meter para wing in 20 knots. You're gonna go. You're gonna go places. And probably the best way for you to learn how to downwind because you get time on foil. And I remember I would do five kilometer runs, which takes 20 minutes if you're doing it properly. And it took me an hour and a half, two hours to float. And I would do 50 meters, 100 meters. I'm like, fuck, I love this thing, man. This is the best thing on earth.
But I wasn't even doing it, you know? Like those hundred meters gave me a little taste. And I think with the parrowing, you're gonna be on foil, you're gonna pack it away, you're gonna hold it, it's gonna tangle, whatever, but you're gonna be down-winding sooner. So I completely agree with you, man, but it is still a challenge to learn. And I wanna talk a little bit about what were your challenges when you were just starting with the parrowing. So what was the first one you ever tried?
Gwen (23:16)
Well, the original BIM, that's the first one I tried. And the first time I tried it, I think ultimately it was pretty ideal conditions. I was probably on like four meters. It was pretty light. mean, was like high tins and small...
Daniel Paronetto (23:38)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (23:42)
small swell was on the lake, so I had like a pretty big foil, I had a pretty big mid-length. So that was my first time on it, and I would say, mean, right away it worked. Just because it's, I do think it's pretty close to winging, so my experience winging got me to that place where picking up a power wing was pretty easy. And then...
you for sure you know my ability to pump you know because I spend you know I spend a lot of time on the lake and there's many days where there's no wind nothing else to do so I get to pump and so all of that combined you know my experience you know I mean even yeah like you said kiting you know from kiting from winging from pumping you put all of that together and you pick up a power wing and it's you know it comes really it comes really quickly now
Daniel Paronetto (24:29)
Mm-hmm.
It's not that hard. Yeah.
Gwen (24:39)
You know, the one thing that for sure, downwinding is very specific and it will challenge anyone coming from, you you can be like world champion kiter. If you have not downwinded, you know, been downwinding, you're gonna, you know, show up and it's gonna be hard to read. You're not gonna be positioned well. So that is the hardest thing β in downwinding. And to me, again, like you said, the prior wing allows you to progress quicker because how are you gonna learn?
Daniel Paronetto (24:56)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (25:08)
by doing it, spending more time on foil, by getting to try it more. If you are with a paddle and you only get up once in a while, you're not getting that experience. So the power wing allows you to kind of like play with feeling, understanding how the water moves without even packing it away. Or you just pack it away, but you still hold it.
Daniel Paronetto (25:19)
Yeah, not enough laps.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (25:34)
So as soon as you start like feeling like you run out of option, you deploy again and you are going again. So I would say, starting, I mean, on flat water, if you want for a first few sessions or until you feel comfortable going back and forth, even though to me, the powering is definitely not the tool I would use if it's flat water. I mean, for learning, yes. Once you have learned.
like to me the power wing is a tool you use in waves or on bumps. So, start on fly water, not too strong of a wind, go back and forth, get a good feel for it. And then, if you can play with waves, play with swell, pack it away, but then don't just hold it and then deploy it again. It's also a great tool when you are on fly water, if you want it to like pump, you kind of like pack it away.
Daniel Paronetto (26:29)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (26:31)
and see how far you can pump, deploy again. Those are like great skills that ultimately are gonna serve you downwind. Because in the downwinding, on the downwind run, you are gonna pump. that's, it's the, yeah, it's a tool, you it's not the fun part, but that's the tool that allows you to connect bumps and the better.
Daniel Paronetto (26:44)
for sure. Yeah. Even if the goal is not to pump, you need to connect them sometimes and yeah.
Gwen (26:58)
you get at reading bumps, at placing yourself, the less you need to use that tool, but that tool, you're always gonna need it. So I feel like the powering, kind of like bridges, all of those skills that you need, and just make it more accessible.
Daniel Paronetto (27:18)
Yeah, that's it's such a great point, man. And I think it's cool for us to understand a little bit. Like what was that board that you use? How many liters, how big it was, the foil, how big, because for me, in my experience, I have a, an eight to β a 115 liter board by 18 wide that I use in the ocean. I just got that. It's my biggest board. It's, it was going to give me the biggest drive on the water just to get going. So I started on the biggest gear I had.
And I started on the 1130s the cold foil 1130s and just the biggest tail everything the biggest that I had What was the the specs of the gear that you started on?
Gwen (27:59)
So the first, my first session, was on like the AFS wide burn. It was a 6'6 by 21, I think, a hundred liters. So it's on the bigger side of a mid-length. know, a lot of like, you know, it floats me easy. I'm at 75 kilos. It's plenty stable.
Daniel Paronetto (28:10)
Good actually,
Gwen (28:22)
Just just enough, you know lengths to to take off easy and then on the foil I had the KT 1340 Atlas so I mean that thing has like tons of Tons of low end. mean and and on the lake, you know, bumps are like so small and so slow and β That that was kind of like what was ideal And so I would say for sure like that's the type of stuff that
Daniel Paronetto (28:27)
Hmm.
huge bottom end.
Gwen (28:51)
is ideal to get going and then, know, even later I would say, know, some of my later, latest sessions, you know, we are still on like a 95 liter downwind bar, like the KT Dragonfly, it's six nine by 18 by 95 liters. I use that when I wanna make sure that like, I don't have to be so power, you know, if I have to go up wind, I like to,
Daniel Paronetto (29:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (29:21)
Not be superpowered if I use like a in 70 litre burn You know you're gonna need a bit more power to get up, but then that extra power to go up when I Don't necessarily like it. You know maybe I don't also ride with harness You know so maybe people with harness you know like to be powered I just like to have just enough to go to go up when if I have to so when I have to go up when I was
choose to have a bigger volume and then I would write a smaller volume only if I'm pretty much just going downwind.
Daniel Paronetto (29:56)
That's such a great tip, think because, and I've done that a few times as well, where if I'm doing an upwind, downwind kind of run, I get a sub surfboard around the seven oh or something like that, around 95 liters for me as well. And that is perfect because I want a small pair of wing in my hand and a small pair of wing that will get me off water. But then once you're up on foil, you're not overpowered. That wind range is so tight, isn't it?
the ability to actually go upwind and not struggle and not be too tired. β I don't like riding with any kind of harness loops or anything like that. I think it's just a tangling hazard. So I'm also unhooked and to be able to upscale the board and sometimes the foil as well. The foil I just match to the conditions. I never try to go super small. If the bumps are slow, I'll get a slow foil, slow tail.
And I think I've done that multiple times now where I'm not going to the smallest gear. I'm just trying to get a smaller power link to go upwind. That's such a, that's a really good tip, β
Gwen (31:02)
Yeah, for sure.
mean, yeah, playing, know, there is a lot of talk, you know, right now the powering is so new. lot of people don't really want to get into it, but don't really understand, you know, the range or like the wind window that, you know, you kind of have for each size. And to me, if you don't play with your board and your foil, your powering range is very small.
So you have to, I mean, of course, it's a lot of stuff to have, but it's nice if you can get a bigger bow or a bigger foil. That's gonna extend the range. You can use your powering so much.
Daniel Paronetto (31:46)
Yeah, and I think, people are coming from different disciplines and a lot of people have more than one board, but if they don't, then I think having multiple power wings is probably a good idea because again, you don't want to be able to get out if it's like 18 to 21 knots. If it's 22, you're already overpowered, you know. β Cool, look, there's so much to talk about. You were talking about downwinding as well and I think...
Gwen (32:05)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (32:13)
I think people who want to go downwind and they want to use the parrowing to go downwind, there's two phases of learning. The first phase, get up on foil with the parrowing. Let's talk about that first. So explain to us how or how do you do your water starts? And I don't know if you use any sinker boards or like if you're always on the mid length, but explain to us how does it like to go and get up on maybe light wind.
versus strong wind and give us some tips on how to get up on foil.
Gwen (32:44)
Yeah, so I mean to me again like the better if you come from like a winging background and I feel like most people you know kind of come from a winging background getting into the power wing like light wind winging is is very similar to what you're gonna experience with the power wing often where like you can't yeah and and you you have to work for it β it just doesn't
Daniel Paronetto (33:08)
It sucks, let's say it.
Yep, 100%.
Gwen (33:14)
It doesn't, it's not gonna get up like that. So unless you are like super powered, but I would say, I feel like most people that I see that are getting into it tend to be less powered. So I would say, really working on your pumping skills, it's the same pumping as you would do when you try to get up with your wing. It's the same, so when you,
Daniel Paronetto (33:17)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (33:43)
when you first get going, you get your power wing up and you try to just keep it stable above and then you try to pump slightly downwind. And if there is a bit of enough wind to have tiny bumps, try to pump β with the bump. It's actually very similar to a paddle up with a paddle. But if you don't...
Daniel Paronetto (33:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Those stages.
Gwen (34:08)
come from the paddling up with the paddle, maybe you don't necessarily understand that timing of kind of like pumping on that small piece of chop that's coming. But trying to pump slightly downwind and not trying to be totally across the wind. Especially if you don't have enough power, you have to point slightly downwind. You can't be totally downwind, otherwise.
you're gonna lose maybe too much power. And to be balanced and stable, you always have to have like a bit of an edge, edge against it, you So if it's pulling you straight downwind, you don't have much stability side to side, because it's just like pulling you forward. It's kind of, I mean, it's the same with a wing, but it's the same as like, you let's say you get told behind a jet ski or boat.
Daniel Paronetto (34:39)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (35:04)
you kind of like edge slightly against it. You don't go straight with the boat, you edge to the side. So it's kind of that, so you go slightly downwind and you pump, you try to use a bit of the bump to get you up. β And then once you are up, then you can edge more and then go upwind. But.
Daniel Paronetto (35:26)
Light wind is so tricky though, isn't it? Because I feel like there are certain stages of getting up in light wind. So you go from just getting the board moving, just get it like moving anywhere, downwind 45 degrees. And then you start to maybe feel a little bit more power in your hand. And then you're like, all right, I'll start a little bit of a pump. And then that amplitude starts to get big as soon as you feel more power and you're getting more speed on the board.
that sensitivity on the pump comes with time. And if you do dog starts, you have that sensitivity on your feet that you don't wanna push through the foil and then punch through the water and then have to start again. So yeah, the more you know, the easier it is to get started for sure.
Gwen (36:11)
Plus,
you know, mean, some, again, like, you know, the equipment that you choose, you know, like the, foils are gonna be more friendly to pump. They are gonna handle a bad pump better than other foils, you know? And so if you have a β foil that's like too small or that's kind of like a fast foil, you know, with a thin profile or whatever, that's gonna make, you know, the pumping...
know, ultimately more tricky. So if you have less experience β with pumping, just make sure you use a foil that, know, usually it's a foil that would have a good low end. Then it means it's gonna handle pumping, you know, better.
Daniel Paronetto (36:57)
Yeah, would, yeah, look, if you have the choice in your quiver to maybe stay away from the high aspects that are over, you know, 10 aspect ratio and stuff like that, that would be good and use something a little bit smaller and the aspect ratio would help you with the bottom end.
Gwen (37:11)
Yeah, for sure. it depends on the size for sure. I mean, what's tricky, I mean, a lot of people have been reaching out to me about like, fly water puddle ups, and, cause I did that clip where like I paddle with no paddle, so I use that massive foil and that thing.
Daniel Paronetto (37:26)
Mm-hmm.
I don't even know,
I still don't understand how that works. I tried it and I'm like, fuck, I'm not gonna do this.
Gwen (37:40)
It's it's all but I mean you also need the right file, you know, otherwise it just doesn't doesn't work You know, but so you need like a ridiculously big foil, but you know those files are not always you know Easier when we get to big size high aspect those foil actually really have to use because the the you know, you have to be so precise with with You know how you are like balance on it if you start going
Daniel Paronetto (37:59)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (38:09)
Anywhere the other you're not coming back from it and that's Yeah You can't yeah, so if you are going to a bigger size You know, would say, know anywhere like I don't know like you know over like 1400 square centimeters like you have to Watch out to the aspect ratio because like those wingspan are gonna be very hard to Especially you add chop to it
Daniel Paronetto (38:12)
Yeah, it just holds that turn, doesn't it? It's very hard to move, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (38:39)
and then it makes it like super hard to handle. So for choppy conditions, something a bit lower aspect is gonna be easier to handle.
Daniel Paronetto (38:51)
Yeah, that's a good point. So we get up, right? Now we're up on the pair of wing and we want to try to start going downwind. The challenge now is to learn how to read the bumps, right? And it's such a unique skill because there's nothing really that compares to it on where you have to be positioned and the patterns that you're looking at at the water. And that's just time, right? So.
Can you describe to us a little bit about what are you looking for when you're going downwind with the pair of wing, you're going, you know, cross wind and you look at a bump that you want to try to get on. What do you do?
Gwen (39:31)
So, you know, what happens out there is, you know, it's waves. It's exactly like riding waves. The difference is, you know, waves, the wave is very easy to see because it stands out, it's flat, and then you have the wave, it's right there.
Daniel Paronetto (39:42)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (39:47)
You know here on when you downwind and it's choppy you have a lot of waves that are you know one here and then one slightly offset right there and then and then they move and then they disappear and then they reappear so that's that's the challenge but ultimately it's it's the same principle as riding a wave so So, you know the thing is like you're gonna know, you know, alright There is there is a hill there is the downhill here and you're gonna pick up speed and you're be like, oh, you know that works
The most common mistake I would say is like, you you found the hill, you go down the hill, and you get all the way to the bottom, and now you have like nothing, you start slowing down, and you are kind of like in between. So you are like in the bottom, you can't really go forward, so you try to pump because you know you are like losing speed, you're gonna stop, you know, coming down and fall, so you are starting to pump, and now you are actually exactly matching the speed, so you stay in the bottom forever. You're just pumping there.
Daniel Paronetto (40:28)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (40:45)
And that down... And so the downhill is behind you, the other is uphill in front of you. So that's the worst place to be. So basically you kind of like, you wanna be closer to the top of the hill, not feeling like the peak is in front of you, but also not running down it. So whatever you have to do to stay there. Sometimes...
Daniel Paronetto (40:46)
and pumping down wind, right? Straight down wind trying to chase it.
Gwen (41:11)
If your foil size, your foil speed and everything matches the bump, you can stay right there straight down, perfect. If you pick up too much speed, maybe because the bump is very slow or your foil is fast, you can't go straight down unless you plan to turn and reposition yourself. So then you have to go kind of like sideways to really stay on top of the bump. And if...
you know, that it's gonna happen, you know, to the best of us still today, you know, that it's kind of like you run out of option, it kind of disappears, and that's when you use your pump. And usually I would say I pump more like sideways and straight down, because when you pump downwind, you move with the pump. So you kind of like tend to stay in that zone where maybe you don't have many options for longer, because you go with it. You're not changing the environment. β
If you pump sideways, you let those things kind of like go by and you move on to somewhere else and hopefully one option is gonna show up and then you can kind of like turn downwind again. You find your downhill, you try to stay on top of it, you don't run down and if you find yourself, know, sometimes the bumps are gonna be too fast or your foil is too slow for those conditions, you kind of like the bump is overtaking you and you start feeling like you've...
fall off the back, then what you wanna do is right away you wanna get out of there so you need to make a sharp turn and pump sideways and go find somewhere else. The worst thing you can do in this position where you slightly start falling back is to pump forward and then you chase, but sometimes if you are experienced, if you are a good pump, your pumping is efficient, you have a foil that's fast enough.
Daniel Paronetto (42:54)
The chase, it's harder.
Gwen (43:07)
you might be able to catch up and then get it. But I would say most of the time people, they start pumping after it and they just uphill the entire time, not really getting out of there. So don't stay there, don't chase it. You have to give it up, you make a sharp turn. And actually if you make a sharp turn sideways, you almost find yourself going downhill on the back of that one. So what was uphill is now almost becoming
Daniel Paronetto (43:09)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (43:37)
downhill for you to pump sideways and get to the next one, maybe the one right behind it. Or maybe you just pump a bit more and then you're gonna find another one. So I made a video on the four rules of downwinding, which kind of like summarize a bit of everything I talked about.
Daniel Paronetto (43:38)
Hmm.
Definitely go watch that,
I've watched that one. It's such a good video. β
Gwen (44:04)
And you know, but with the power wing, few things that, know, people kind of like, a common thing that people struggle with β at first is packing up the power wing, you know, like, you know. So I would say to me, what makes a huge difference is that, you know, you're riding the power wing, power, you know, using it as your way of getting speed. And then you see a bump, you're gonna,
turn on it, so you're gonna start going downwind, and on top of that, you are on top of the bump, so the bump now is giving you, is the one providing you the speed, the power that you are using. So, that power wing, naturally, is gonna be totally deep power, and often is almost gonna fall, so what I do is like, I make it stall, you know, I kind of like pull on the back lines, with the fact that there is very little power in that power wing, it's just gonna fall.
Daniel Paronetto (45:02)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (45:02)
And
with my free hand, I catch the lines, wrap it up all the way to the canopy. And then, you know, I kind of like with the bar in my hand, I go grab the canopy on the outside, wrap all the lines inside. And then, you know, maybe you just hold it like that. You know, if you are like unsure that you're gonna be able to ride for a while so you can deploy it easier. And as you get more experience riding bumps and you know you're gonna be good for a few minutes, you can pack it away.
what's very important is basically that transition of I'm using the power wing as my power source to I'm using the bump as my power source. And if you switch, it's gonna be really easy, because now the power wing has no power. Very easy to pack up. If you do that transition and you either you try to pack it up in the wrong spot, you know, maybe it's...
you are in the bottom of the heel, it's not giving you that power. That powering is still the way that you have your power. So you can't really shut it off because it's, know, it's, it's, it has tensions, quite a bit of tension in your lines. So you need to make sure that you point downwind, you use the bump, and that powering is gonna be so easy to pack up.
Daniel Paronetto (46:22)
Yeah, look, this description of the transfer of power from the parrowing to the bump is the first time I've heard someone talk about it that way. And I think it's the perfect way for you to understand it because it happens for yourself. If you are in that place of the bump that you are riding the bump, the parrowing kind of falls. It kind of comes down very lightly. You don't have to do that much effort. Caveat there is like, if you are in...
25, 30 knots. It's a little different because the bumps are going faster, but the wind might still have a little bit of power in the power wing and you do need to do a little bit more of a movement. But if you have that in your mind that you need to transfer that energy and the power source, man, that's gold. That's such a good way to think about it. And I think people will start to get those transitions better because the way I think about it is,
Initially, I was really shooting myself onto those bumps, β going really fast and then I wasn't really matching the speed of the bump. So now when I am going to do that transition, I really slow down, I match the speed to the bumps that I'm gonna be riding. I feel that transfer happening. And then once you point it down, the power wing just goes in front of you and it's so easy, it's so nice. That's such a good description, man.
Gwen (47:40)
For sure, mean, you know, when I'm in the parking lot, you know, holding the power wing and I try to like, you know, de-power it, it's so hard. And so when I see people out there that struggle, it's because they are in the exact same position. So it's not because, you know, necessarily like, you know, the technique of whatever they do with their hands is wrong. Like, I look the same if I do it in the parking lot, you know, like.
Daniel Paronetto (47:47)
So hard. Yeah.
Hmm.
Gwen (48:05)
The key is not really necessarily the hand thing. I mean, yes, that helps. But the main thing to me is, you switching your power source so that there is nothing in your powering or very little in your powering? Then it makes it super easy to backup.
Daniel Paronetto (48:24)
Yeah, that's gold, man. β So yeah, so then you're riding your bumps and I think the only thing left there is just to get that experience in riding bumps. You're gonna notice that sometimes you're gonna stall and you're gonna carve a little bit because you are on the right one. There's really no opportunities anywhere else. But then you slowly gonna get comfortable in looking three meters ahead, 10 meters ahead, 20 meters ahead. Like that spatial awareness changes.
and that tunnel vision that you get at the start of every sport. You know, I think you have like five frames per second at the start. And then when you start becoming a little bit more experienced, you get 30 frames per second and it becomes a little bit easier to do all those things.
Gwen (49:04)
I mean,
actually, know, something that's very true is that tunnel vision often happens also with the fact that, you are maxing out effort level. And, you know, cause it's so easy to be away and like look around, find your options when you are like chill.
Daniel Paronetto (49:20)
Mmm.
Gwen (49:30)
When you are working hard and your heart rate, you are about to blow up, yeah, it's a lot harder to be relaxed and look for options. You kind of tend to like, you don't see. And so, you know, I think a lot of the thing, which is hard, you know, when you try to explain to a beginner, like, yeah, you're like, look around, look right, look left. It's easy to say that, you know, when you are like,
Daniel Paronetto (49:38)
Mmm.
Gwen (49:53)
not working hard. And I've kind of realized that even on downwind runs myself when conditions are barely doable and I'm struggling so hard. And yeah, I start, once I get really maxed out, I start not seeing, I start not being aware, I start making mistakes. Even though I know I...
Daniel Paronetto (49:55)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Gwen (50:19)
This was a mistake, you but in the moment I was not aware and that's what happens for a lot of people so You know the more you know, it's kind of a catch-22 but like the more you know the better you get at positioning yourself the more you save energy and the more you have time to be aware and to to to kind of like You know weigh your options and make good decisions, you know
Daniel Paronetto (50:38)
Mm-hmm.
And it's a lot of it is experience as well because I noticed like when I start downwinding, I have those 30 seconds in the beginning that I'm just understanding the speed where, where, how much energy we have, how does the foil feel. And then you get into a groove that you know that you have certain amount of seconds on this wave and you have to look for something else. You know, it just becomes a rhythm and that, that is just time on water, which is why the power wing.
for me for down-winding and learning is great. Because if you have to do 10 paddle-ups on the SUP, mate, you're gonna be cooked. I know I am. After my 10th paddle-up, man, my 11th is shit. You know, like I can't go anywhere.
Gwen (51:24)
For sure. mean, you know, we did
a race in France last year in Crozon.
And it was, can't remember that first race we did, like the distance, was like, I don't know, something like maybe six miles, maybe 10 miles, and it was pretty much flat. And I did 33, 33 pedal-ups because the race, the race was literally, because all of us were under foil because, you you travel to a race, you don't bring your...
big foils, you you are like, want my fast foils, you know, so you get your small quiver of fast foils. And so the race, was all like, you you paddle up, you pump until you can't do it anymore, and then you come down and then someone passes you because they are pumping and then they come down and then you pass them because you're pumping. it was like, think, I mean, maxing out like, you know, 100 and...
Daniel Paronetto (52:03)
Mm-hmm.
heart rate at 180 for the whole time.
Gwen (52:27)
95 you know, you know like heart rate and and it was brutal But you know, so I actually I signed up for two races in Hawaii this summer Padalimua and M2M and and I recently switched my Padalimua registration to Powerwing
Daniel Paronetto (52:29)
my god. That hurts.
Nice.
Yes! Yes sir, you're gonna win it!
Gwen (52:55)
Because I think I don't know I just think it's it's it's it's pretty cool You know, don't know it's the Malik ran So it's not that long. I know like the top guys do it in like 30 minutes or something and you know anywhere from 30 to like 50 minutes or something β So it's not a long a long race β but
Daniel Paronetto (52:58)
How long is the pedal a moo one?
Gwen (53:20)
I don't know if it's the first year that they allow the power wing or that they have a power wing category. But as soon as I found out that they had the power wing category, I was like, oh, that's really cool. I'm switch my registration. And I don't think M2M has the power wings category. So I would be doing the sub-folding on that. But I think it's gonna...
Daniel Paronetto (53:24)
think so, yeah.
Nice.
Gwen (53:49)
Maybe surprise a lot of people that I switched to power wing because β you know people see me on the panel all the time. β It is like I'm like I'm pretty stoked. So actually, you know, my plan is is to only travel with my, you know, mid-length and hopefully I can borrow a downwind board there. That's kind of like my plan, my hack, my travel.
Daniel Paronetto (53:57)
Yeah, I'm gonna put that as like the clickbait. Gwen is now a power winger. Converted.
Yeah.
That's the
way to go man. Yeah, traveling with these downwind aboards is a hassle and you don't want them to break and Jesus, it's a nightmare.
Gwen (54:18)
travel hack.
It's so hard and like, even with your paddle, know, the paddle is also very big, but you know, putting it with your downwind board is always kind of tricky. You know, I've traveled a few times internationally with a downwind board and I mean, like very often I got my board dinged up, you know. So I am pretty excited to try not to travel with a downwind board anymore.
Daniel Paronetto (54:32)
Mm.
Um, do you think that parowinging will make better downwind foilers because you don't have the paddle? And I think about the paddle when I was using, um, when I was doing a lot of paddle ups, I would, I would use the paddle to get me out of bad positions all the time. And it was such a good thing just to have a paddle to pump paddle for, you know, 500 meters until you could find something else. But then I started parowinging and I'm the first time I was running out of energy. I'm like, shit.
Gwen (55:14)
You
Daniel Paronetto (55:25)
I have nowhere to go here and I have no paddle and a small board. Like what do I do? β Do you think the paddling will make you a better downwinder?
Gwen (55:28)
You
Yeah, yeah, for sure. think β one, it's gonna give you more time right away. So I think people are gonna progress quicker. β But then, yeah, like you said, now it's fully you and the bumps.
So you have to you know, your mistakes are gonna be maybe a bit more like costly, you know, you're gonna You're not gonna get out of it. So easy So, you know that that ultimately is gonna it's gonna be a great thing for teaching people, know to make the right decisions But I remember the first few times like like hands-free
I think I had like a camera was on the stick or something and in situation where I struggling I found myself trying to use the stick, the camera stick to like paddle.
Daniel Paronetto (56:25)
You
That is such a good reaction, man. Just like the instinct of like, β God, I don't have anything.
Gwen (56:34)
You
Daniel Paronetto (56:38)
Yeah. and I noticed my turns got so much better once I started powering because of that, because that's your way to generate speed is turn and turn and bank. And then, yeah, it's, β definitely something that I think will, will improve the rider's level just because you have no other options. β
Gwen (56:48)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (56:58)
When I want to talk a little bit about the BRMs that you've tried, there is, there's some information about them out there. watched, β the X-Foyles podcast that Greg went in, in there and explained the different models. But I have to be honest, man, after that podcast, I still didn't know which BRM I would want because they, they all are, you know, meant and designed for certain disciplines.
But then as Greg was speaking, he's like, yeah, but people are using this for that and that for this. I'm like, God, okay, now I'm confused again. So explain to us those three models and what's the thinking behind.
Gwen (57:38)
Well, how I would describe it is, there is three models. Let's start with the Malico II. So the Malico II to me is the power wing for someone that just wants to downwind. Especially if you're gonna ride a smaller burn, it has tons of ground.
gonna get you up and you're gonna go down when you pack it away, don't deal. And then you have the caja, which is, know, if you kind of like gonna redeploy and store, redeploy and store, and you're gonna do a bit of like, you know, riding up, so that's why it could be a really good one if like you plan on doing some, you know, wave riding, because you go back to a peak and you're always packing it away.
and then deploying again. And then you have the Kana β which is gonna be the one that's like gonna be better for like, you if you plan on going upwind for like longer. So let's say, you know, in your mind you have, you you wanna use it as like a way to do a downwind there but you're gonna really go upwind for a while and then you're go downwind, you know, so, but ultimately.
Out of those three, I would say if you want to do it all, you want to do some downwind, you want to ride waves, and you want to go upwind, to me, you get the kind of hop because it can do it all. I would almost describe it as the most versatile. And then if you want to just, you don't plan on riding upwind very much, but a little still, then you get the car.
on the pure downwind, then you get the Mariko too. that, I don't know, hopefully that β clarifies a bit. yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (59:39)
No, it does. And I'm just muting myself because they're taking the trash out just next to me now. And you tried all three, all three of those. Yep. Which one is your favorite one and why?
Gwen (59:43)
okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I would say the car is probably my favorite because I don't like to go upwind for a very long time. β And it's not something about the power wing. I feel the same about the wing. Going upwind is just to me not fun. I mean, sometimes you have to do it if you don't have a shuttle or something. But ultimately, I...
You know, even if I want to downwind and I, you know, use the power wing to downwind and I don't have a shuttle, I would rather go upwind for two, three minutes, go downwind, go back upwind and break it down. I hate going upwind for 20 minutes or 30 minutes. So that's why to me, the car is probably my favorite because I can downwind, you know, if I just plan on downwind. β
Otherwise if I want to go upwind that's the type that I use I go upwind a little downwind upwind downwind And so the car would be perfect for that
Daniel Paronetto (1:01:00)
Yeah, I, to me, my, my riding changed a lot since I started parrying and you know, shuttling and that kind of stuff. Whenever it's available, I'll take one. Um, but when it's not, all I do is I go to this high performing spot and I just do laps and my, my, my tack, I do maybe two tacks, one long tack, second long tack, and then I'll ride away for, I don't know, 200, 300 meters. Um, and that's enough. the caja for me and
Gwen (1:01:21)
Yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:01:30)
So I think I had it right. the end, I think I understood what Greg was saying. But at the end, he was saying, the Kanaha, now people are using it for this and that. And then I'm like, my god, OK, I got it confused again.
Gwen (1:01:40)
Well, know,
ultimately, you know, I would say the car and the Kana, β you know, I would say they are, are going to be close enough that you're going to have a good time. You know, you could get the car and love it. You could also get the Kana and love it. Like to me, there is not a really bad choice. I would say the only bummer is if you get the Malico too, but you plan on riding upwind, then to me, in my opinion, you missed out on
the comfort of riding a twin with the car in the Kanaha. β So the Malik Auto is the only one I would be very specific and then the two others are pretty versatile.
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:19)
Mm-hmm.
And is the difference between the Maliko and the Kaha and the Kanaha like really visible in that bottom end kind of, you know, downwind kind of mode that you want or what makes it super good for the downwinding?
Gwen (1:02:38)
Well, know, it's the Malikoto is the lowest β aspect of the three. So it's not necessarily like the most like stable. To me, I just describe it as like, it's, I find it has the most grant. So that's kind of what you use it for. It's your paddle up, you know, like boost of power, down deal, pack it away, don't touch it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:02:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Okay.
Yep.
Yep.
Gwen (1:03:09)
and where the other two are like more comfortable to ride because you're gonna be holding it for longer time. You're gonna be maneuvering it back and forth, side to side, driving, tacking, and you're gonna go upwind with it.
Daniel Paronetto (1:03:17)
Mm-hmm.
I'm so excited about this because now we very quickly, we got into this area that we have para specific pair of wings for different uses. And I thought it was actually going to take a little bit longer, but you know, Greg's thinking ahead of the game as he did when he launched the V ones and you know, caught everybody with their pants down and he's done it again now with these different models. Um, yeah. And I, in the future, I even see models that might be, you know, freestyle and you know, we, we will have.
racing, but then I think the racing becomes very close to kite racing. They're using 10 meter lines and kite racing and you know, the parowings very close to that, but there are double skinned versions coming out, all that stuff. So it's exciting to see where the industry is going, but how do you see, you know, parowinging adding to your foiling? Where do you see the most benefit of actually using a parowing?
Gwen (1:04:18)
Yeah, so I mean, for me, if when I'm on flat water, you know, I'm on the lake here, I still prefer the wing. You know, I still have more fun on the wing if I'm on flat, especially with wind that tends to be, you know, easier, lighter or like really gusty. You know, I'm on the mountain, mountain lake. So it can be up, it can be down. And to me, I still, you know, prefer the wing in that condition. So the power wing is really a tool that, you know,
I use to downwind to ride bumps if I don't have a shuttle, if I'm just gonna do short, know, ups and down. Or like, you know, if I wanna travel with a small quiver and I do want a downwind, because it's my favorite thing that I prefer to do, β then I'm bringing my power wings, you know, with me, which will allow me to, you know, ride around and downwind, yeah.
Daniel Paronetto (1:05:16)
Yeah, I think a lot of the wingers that I see out there, a lot of the riding that they are doing is going up wind, flagging the wind, the wing and riding down. I think, and if you're kind of at that level and you're a little bit stagnant in your winging and what the next thing is going to be doing a backflip, I don't know how many people will do it.
I think the pair of wing is a great option to stay in your local area and get a little bit more of enjoyment of riding those bumps with a little bit more freedom of not having the wing in your hand. Um, and then ultimately that might get you into down winding as well.
Gwen (1:05:52)
And you know, mean, if anyone out there is not convinced that, know, down winning is for them because they maybe they don't live in the right spot. I mean, you know, you, I think you have to reconsider that, you know, because the potential is massive. You can really down win, you know, anywhere and it doesn't have to be Maui Hood River, you know, it can be on this like tiny lake or in the middle of nowhere.
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:07)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (1:06:20)
And if you have the right β foil that allows you to ride those bumps, that feeling of only using the bumps to ride, I mean, it's kind of like surfing in a way. It's the simplicity of surfing, compared to any wind stuff where you have a sail, where everything gets more complicated. It just becomes very simple.
Daniel Paronetto (1:06:37)
Mm-hmm. 100%.
Gwen (1:06:49)
and being able to ride tiny bumps that's like from the shore you were looking at them and you never thought anything of it. To me it's kind of...
you know like that like you know you maybe you scroll through magazines and you see those perfect waves and you are like you know you want to be there so bad you know but actually you look at whatever water you have and you don't see anything and it turns out it's amazing too you know so
Daniel Paronetto (1:07:13)
Hmm.
Yeah, no, man,
when you get in there, you know, if you see some Y-caps, there are bumps to be ridden anywhere. So if you have 20 knots and you're going down 10 kilometers, you take the paddle or you take the power ring.
Gwen (1:07:24)
for sure.
I would say, you know, I think the only reason I'm still on the paddle is Is is because you know, I want to do some races so I kind of like, you know, I want to keep up my skills with the paddle but I Honestly, I think is the only thing that's keeping me on the paddle otherwise
I would probably be on the powering all the time because why not?
Daniel Paronetto (1:08:07)
Okay, let's lead with that next time. Gwen, is there anything else, mate, that you think people need to know about the Parrowing or something that we haven't spoken about, about you, your life, what you're doing, anything that you want to share with us?
Gwen (1:08:09)
Hehehehehe
Well, you I think β a lot of people, know, like right now the power wings are like moving pretty fast. You know, there is new ones coming out all the time. and I would say, you know, if you are in a stage where you haven't got your first power wing yet and, you are, you know, waiting because you keep hearing someone saying that there is a new one that's coming out, that's going to be way better. And you keep waiting for it. β I would say, I think that's a mistake, you know, because β
the power wings that we have access to today are already good β to get you going. So I don't see the need to wait. don't think, I think you will be missing out. And so I would say, get your hands on one right now β and start your journey because it is a learning process anyway. So you might as well get started as soon as possible. But.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:18)
Mm-hmm.
Gwen (1:09:22)
The doors that it's going to open for you is just incredible. And the fun you're going to have is just out of this world. So just don't wait.
Daniel Paronetto (1:09:35)
Yeah, it's a good tip because the first one worked. The BRM V1 was amazing and got everyone into it. β and you can find one online secondhand pretty cheap now as well, if you want to go that route. And we need to talk again after your races because I think by then you're not going to be using that paddle too often. That's just a guess.
Gwen (1:09:47)
for sure.
Well, honestly, if races, if all the downwind races start opening up, and I think they should, to the power, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like right now, not all the races have access, have a powering category, but.
Daniel Paronetto (1:10:03)
Hmm. Well, they're doing foil drive. Some of them have foil drive. Could be foil drive, power wing and paddle and just open up for more people.
Gwen (1:10:22)
You know, I think they should and I hope they do. And when they do, then I don't know if you will see me on the pattern again.
Daniel Paronetto (1:10:29)
Ooh, there you go.
Now I have my thumbnail. Thank God. I was trying to get something the whole episode. Gwen, thanks for your time, man. If you ever need anything or if you're ever down in Australia, man, hit me up. It was a pleasure talking to you and meeting you and learning a little bit more about you. Someone who I've learned a lot from your videos online and now getting a chance to talk to you was really nice, man. So thanks for your time.
Gwen (1:10:35)
you
Well, thank you so much for everything you do and for having me. And let me know if you go to the US or, you know, I spend quite some time in Hood River, you know, so if you go to Hood River, it would be fun to connect.
Daniel Paronetto (1:11:05)
Mmm.
Yeah man, I'm going in July. The 14th to the 31st of July this year I'll be there.
Gwen (1:11:10)
No, I couldn't.
Mmm,
I might be in Hawaii, but... More to see. Alright, thank you.
Daniel Paronetto (1:11:16)
β shame. You're going to be doing the paddle stuff there. Thanks again, Gwen. We'll talk soon,
Cheers.
