011_Gavin Blake: YouTube Parawing Reviewer Compares Each Brand

Season #1 May 11, 2025

Gavin Blake is foiler with a mission. The sole purpose of his YouTube channel is to raise money for Bear Cottage, the Children's Hospice based in Sydney. Gav has gone a step further and launched an online auction to raise money in a creative way. Gav is auctioning a complete Code setup (980S, 142AR tail, medium fuse and 85cm mast) through his YouTube channel from the 10th - 17th of May, check out the link to bid on this incredible setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J2ynvVDu2Y

Gav is also one of the most reputable product reviewer in the parawinging space and in this episode Gav goes through all the parawings he’s tried so far, sharing the pros and cons of each model, in order to help you make the right choice. We discuss his passion for parawinging, why it beats every other foiling disciple and other practical advice for people getting into the sport.

Thank you Gav for your positive energy, purposeful pursuit, and overall froth on Parawinging!

Episode Transcript

Daniel Paronetto (00:00)
to the Lab Rat For the podcast. My name is Dan and today we have Gavin Blake with us. YouTube sensation does the reviews about all the power wings out there. But above all, Gav is running this whole YouTube channel for a charity, the Bear Cottage, which we were going to get into before we start talking about parawinging. But welcome to the podcast, Gav.

Gavin (00:25)
Thank you for having me, mate. I really appreciate it. It's just awesome to chat to another powering brother. I love it. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (00:31)
Yeah. And

we were talking a little bit before the podcast. ⁓ Gav recently recorded another podcast with the generic foiling crew. So go on and check that out. Cause there's a lot of information there as well. We're going to try to touch on some stuff that hasn't been spoken about in that, in that podcast, but we have a very similar background. Gav. we both work in emergency services and we were just talking before the podcast, very similar life. ⁓

and you're running all your YouTube efforts for this charity and you have an amazing raffle coming up. Is that right?

Gavin (01:10)
That's it, mate. firstly, thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this and plug it. I know it's not exactly what everybody wants to hear, but it's really important to me. It's important to a lot of my friends we get involved in it. So the long and short of it is that through my work, ⁓ we work very closely with a charity called Bear Cottage. And it's a children's hospice based here in Sydney. And they provide 24-hour palliative care for pediatrics.

Essentially, kids with terminal illnesses of no fault of their own. It's a horrible thing to say, but it's a place where they go to die. And it is heart wrenching when you go there. And through our work, we unfortunately have a lot of interaction with that. So we bring a lot of children from all over the state into this facility. And it's down the road from where I live in Manly in a beautiful, beautiful setting. they not only

look after the children, but it's the family support. So interestingly, there's a really high suicide rate in fathers as a result of which is completely understandable. And so they have a network that helps and supports that and they have reduced that significantly since they've opened this. I think it's been running for about seven or eight years now, but anyway, it's government funded, but they are always

Daniel Paronetto (02:20)
You

Gavin (02:38)
resource shy, they always need more. And it's the angels, the nurses that actually do the work on the ground that just, they don't get paid anywhere near as much as they need to. so, the whole point of this is really just to ease a bit of pain. We're not gonna, I'm not generating millions, as you can imagine, it's a bit of an issue, but it's a bit, it's enough, it makes a difference. And so that's the whole purpose behind this, the channel and also the auction.

Daniel Paronetto (02:47)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (03:08)
The auction itself, Codefoil's Josh Koo ledger. think he came, I saw the interview actually, he's a legend, he's such a good guy. And it was his idea, it was his brainchild. He said, look, why don't we give a foil? fact, actually, is this foil just here? Yeah, let me just bend it down. it's a, your code, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is a 980S. So it's epic. So we've got a medium fuse on it.

Daniel Paronetto (03:14)
yet.

Ooh, let's have a look.

Yeah, I write code.

Nice.

Beautiful.

Gavin (03:38)
85

mask, the 142 AR tail is beautiful. It's one of my favorite foils. It's really versatile. And interestingly for parawinging, it's amazing. So like I use it in bay runs like all the time because it's just, pumps well, turns well, it's just epic. Anyway, so back to the course. So we're auctioning this off on YouTube. In fact, I'm releasing the video.

Daniel Paronetto (03:45)
100%.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

It's my go-to as well. Yeah.

Gavin (04:07)
on Saturday the 10th, so that's tomorrow, this will be a bit of a delay. It's going to be out for a week, it's where I'm going to describe the process and then people can in the comments actually put in bids and it's going to be the highest bid a week later, which is the 17th, exactly 10 GMTs when will, it will be to finish. And then whoever's got the highest bid at that point then wins the foil and I'll post it to them for free anywhere in the world. So.

Daniel Paronetto (04:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Mm-hmm.

What a great idea.

Amazing.

Gavin (04:36)
You're

going to get a bargain foil, an epic foil, and all of the proceeds are going to Bear Cottage to help out Good Cause. So it's a great, it's a really good thing that we're doing as a community. People are jumping on board. The one thing I will say is that in order for it to work, I think there's a lot of holes in the system, obviously, with it being YouTube. But we wanted to do it on the channel to keep it in one place rather than going off to an auction site.

Daniel Paronetto (05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (05:04)
So it kind of needs the community to play ball. That's it, yeah. So we're gonna kind of like, I'll put a minimum of 50 buck bids and I'm gonna try and police it as I'm going through in the comments. But I think it will work. think the community's small enough and good enough that it will work.

Daniel Paronetto (05:08)
Yeah, you don't want one cent bids. Yeah.

Yeah, I just maybe

in the comment section, you can always have a pin comment in there with maybe some guidelines for the bidding, you know, and yeah, we'll, we'll hound anyone that chucks in a cent in there. We're like, surely that was a typo, man. ⁓ dude, that's, ⁓ that's such a great idea and such. ⁓ yeah, look, I've been overwhelmed with the community.

Gavin (05:35)
That's it, yeah, that's what I'm gonna, yeah, yeah.

That's it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, put a zero on the end of it. But yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (05:54)
Myself just with this podcast and trying to reach out to certain people and everyone has been super supportive And I'm sure that everybody that has that you've reached out to has you know been equally supportive to such a good cause like this man and congrats for you to Tying this to something that's actually meaningful not just you know Views or anything like that. It's something that's meaning something to some people and in a time of their life that it's really critical

Gavin (06:01)
you

⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, exactly.

Hmm.

Yeah, I mean, of course, I get the joy of using the gear and doing the videos and I enjoy doing that and I've got time on my hands and that's other thing. yeah, I think it's a good thing to do and I enjoy it. A lot of people have asked me actually locally, I personally haven't had any involvement in Bear Cottage obviously. I've got two kids, they're healthy and a lot of people have asked me that so I just wanted to make that clear.

Daniel Paronetto (06:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (06:51)
the reason why I'm doing it, but I do know people that have unfortunately gone down that route. it's really important. It's close to my heart. yeah, you know, it's, we can, as a community do a bit of good. At same time as someone gets an epic foil and, and actually, so I just want to do a massive shout out to Code and Josh for, doing this. So, you know, they didn't have to do this. They have donated a foil, which is epic. And I think that deserves a bit of a shout out, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (07:13)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

a hundred percent. And it's, it's what I think we should all be doing, man. Like anything that people want help with, you know, that I get involved with, I'm like, look, after, you know, we chat on the podcast, I'm always like, dude, if you have anything that you're working on, anything that you want to get the message out, um, reach out because I feel humbled sometimes, you know, with the people that I talk to and the people that we get, um, contact with. So good on you, man. I'm really proud of you for doing that. That's awesome.

Gavin (07:44)
Thanks, mate.

Thank you. Thank you.

Daniel Paronetto (07:49)
yeah, let's get onto some parawinging. want to learn a little bit about yourself. ⁓ I don't know if you know the format of the podcast, but we always start with like a little bit of an explanation about your history in sports. So we know what you're bringing in your toolkit for parawinging and your approach to parawinging. So give us a little bit about your history in sports, where you started and how did you end up, ⁓ with a jellyfish in your hand?

Gavin (07:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's kind of when I look back at it a of a natural progression to end up parawinging like it's kind of a combination of all the sports. yeah, I I started off surfing that was the first that was the first thing I did as a kid in the UK believe it or not it's cold but it is good like there are some really good spots and then then I went into sailing I did that a lot like I was in competitive sailing at quite a high level for years and years as a youth.

and got into the British Sailing Team and did that all over the country and the world actually. And it got to a point where I just wasn't quite good enough to do it professionally. Some of the guys I was on the circuit with, I see them now doing very well and I just wasn't quite there if I'm honest with myself. And so I decided at that point to go down a different route. And then water sports was just more enjoyable for me at that point. And I took up windsurfing and I got into that in a big way.

and I took up kiting really early. So I took up kiting in the early 2000s, late, it must have been 2000 when I had my first kite.

Daniel Paronetto (09:22)
Amazing.

In that transition of kiting, of just taking over windsurfing and everybody doing that transition. Yeah.

Gavin (09:27)
That's it. Yeah.

Yeah. And if I'm honest with myself, I think my heart was always in windsurfing, always looking for the waves and, ⁓ but where I lived, it wasn't quite safe. We had flat water and then the drive to the waves was about 45 minutes or so. So, but then I think just kiting was just much more, you could just get on the water more because the wind range is better. So I just, I really then got into kiting. I just kind of ditched the windsurfing. You could travel with the gear. You know, this all resonates with

Daniel Paronetto (09:34)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Mmm. Yeah,

Gavin (09:56)
with parawinging, right? Like, you

Daniel Paronetto (09:57)
100%.

Gavin (09:58)
know, all of the same things that drew me to kiting. And I did it for years, just all like, you know, loved it. And then when I was in the military, learning to fly, was really challenging because I was posted inland, and it was very difficult to get to places. It kind of stopped a little bit really, which is a bit disappointing. I'd go on your, you know, trip and what have you, but yeah, it took a bit of a back...

Daniel Paronetto (10:15)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Gavin (10:26)
backburner to honest. And then, yeah, and then when I left, I then really took it back up again, and then started getting into kite foiling. So again, I got into that quite early. And that's it. Yeah. And again, it was, it was teaching myself like it was a bit of a, yeah, was a bit of a steep learning curve of Monis, got there eventually. And really, you know, really enjoyed that just going out in all wind conditions, really light stuff, as you know.

Daniel Paronetto (10:36)
That's what your first form of foiling was with the kite. Yeah, nice.

Gavin (10:54)
And then we moved to Australia and I saw winging for the first time and I just, I wasn't sold on it. And I think, I think it took about a year for me to like really get into it. And then, then I eventually, I don't know, like I think, I reckon, I reckon it's because like when you look at it, you're always looking at beginners and so it looks really kooky. Like, you know, you're not, you're not seeing like cash like slash waves or anything like that. You're just, you're watching somebody.

Daniel Paronetto (11:01)
Mmm.

Why is that man? That was the same.

Mmm. Yeah, just people standing there. Yeah.

Gavin (11:23)
and mess around on flat water, not really making it work. if there was, was, yeah. And it just didn't really, in fact, actually at that point, I then got back into boats and I started doing moth sailing. yeah. So I got into that, which is just, it's so expensive. If I quickly looked into, I bought a boat and things were going wrong and I was just spending a fortune on it and time as well. And that is why I made the jump over to winging actually, because

Daniel Paronetto (11:26)
130 liter board, you're like, Jesus. Yeah.

yeah.

Gavin (11:51)
I was like, I could sell all this gear and get like the best stuff available. So I did that. And then just jumped into to winging and really, really got into the winging. And then I got into downwinding as a result of the YouTube channel. So it was an experiment to see how long it would take me to learn how to downwind. And it was, yeah, it was a bit of a baptism of fire. had no idea. I'd never picked up a paddle. Like I'd never paddled in my life.

Daniel Paronetto (11:55)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (12:20)
Everything was new. And interestingly, there's a really big community here in Northern Beaches. Obviously, James Casey and Josh are here. And they kind of all took me under their wing and I joined the Casey group. And before you know it, I got hooked onto that. And I did it a lot. Like I did it a lot. Everything went to the back burner at that point.

Daniel Paronetto (12:28)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nice.

How long did it take you to kind of dial it in? It took me forever,

Gavin (12:49)
I reckon it was a year. I reckon it was a year of doing it a lot before I was like comfortable, you know, being able to like, I know I can do a run now and not have like shockers. So a lot of time, we've got this run locally that we do all the time and I reckon I've paddled that like without getting up on foil once. Yeah, yeah, I reckon I've done that. I probably, I reckon I've done that about 20 times. You know, it's just, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (12:51)
Mm.

The full way.

Mate, it's

cruel, isn't it? And I would, man, I would go on these runs as well, small runs like 5K, but it would take me like an hour and a half. And I would get up for like 50 meters.

Gavin (13:19)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, why not?

Yeah, I know. You get that little, know, little bit of joy and then that's it. You're like, yeah, you want to then do it again and again and again. I remember once, when I'm on my off times, I do the school pick up for the kids. And I did one run, I was like, we're starting at 12. I've got loads of time before three before the pick up. And sure shit, I'm out in the ocean. And it's like...

Daniel Paronetto (13:34)
Just a taste.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Ooh, that's kinda tight actually.

Mm.

Gavin (13:58)
20 to 3 and I'm like ⁓ my god this is just so bad my son's gonna be waiting at a

Daniel Paronetto (14:02)
Man, I need my partner to watch this because we allocate like three

hours is just nothing. It's like the minimum to make it rushed, know, like once you get to shore, see you bye, no chats, you know, no debriefs, just run. And sometimes it just happens and like, she's like, why does it take five hours? I'm like, because I didn't get up. I just floated.

Gavin (14:24)
Yeah, that's right.

It's just a lottery, isn't it? Like at the beginning, I think like now I've kind of got it down to a bit of a team. We're to do a run this afternoon, actually. And so I've got a space of like three hours. I'm confident that with the right gear, I'm going to do it real quick. be 20 minute run. And so I've got to that point downwinding now where I can do that. And but yes, it's actually this is a really good segue. So because for that very reason, I was looking

Daniel Paronetto (14:38)
Hehe.

Gavin (14:53)
for something that would give me down-winding in half an hour or an hour. That's what I was looking for. I was desperately after it. And so was searching everywhere and coming up with ideas myself. very early on, I got involved in the wing pack downs. James had this crazy contraption where you can actually pump it up down the run, but that just wasn't working. I was popping wings.

Daniel Paronetto (15:09)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (15:21)
And so, it just never really did, the pack down never really did it for me because you always had this extra weight on your back and it did make a difference. I did, I always found you had to then get a bigger ball or a bigger foil to compensate. And it's really strange because it doesn't seem like it's a lot, but I think it's because it's on your shoulders, this swing weight, it always collects water. When you fall in, it then gets worse and worse and worse and you compound this. Anyway, I was then like.

Daniel Paronetto (15:27)
Yeah, I found it tough as well.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (15:50)
seeing things on the internet, like there was one guy, I think he was in France, who had a wind wing, it was like an umbrella that you could pack down, I know if you saw that. Yeah, I think so, yeah. And he would put that in his bag. Yeah, I know, yeah. Yeah, I did think that. But I reached out and I was like, oh, how much are they? And it was so expensive, I was like, oh, that's just not an option, it's just not, And...

Daniel Paronetto (15:59)
black and red one yeah I think I saw that yeah it looked like a deathtrap though man just falling with that thing like I'm like ⁓ just gonna stab me in the rib or something

Mmm.

Gavin (16:19)
And so when the original, is it the Hawaii Five-O, is it the pocket, pocket wind, yeah, it's not pocket rocket. Yeah, so when that came out first of all, that really grabbed my attention. I was like, okay, this is what I'm after. And I actually tried to order one and then I messaged him and we ⁓ were having a discussion and he goes, no, he doesn't really go up wind. And that was like, ⁓ okay.

Daniel Paronetto (16:25)
Yeah, Pocketwing, Sam Reynolds and yeah.

Gavin (16:47)
I didn't want it just to do the sense because I could do that already with downwinding. was after self-positioning. This hour window was what I was after. And then as soon as the BRM popped up on my screen, I went nuts. I was just like, that's it. That is what I'm looking for. And I was analyzing the video frame by frame going, are they actually going upwind? Is this actually happening?

Daniel Paronetto (16:52)
That's right.

Yes.

Yep.

Gavin (17:17)
And so I was so excited. I ordered one straight away and you couldn't get them in Australia. They wouldn't post them in Australia straight off. And so I had a friend in the States, I bought it, sent it to him and then he went on holiday and there was a delay in it. And then they changed the website. You could send it to Australia. So was like, no! So everybody was getting them in Australia and mine was sat in this...

Daniel Paronetto (17:38)
⁓ god.

⁓ that's gut-wrenching,

Gavin (17:46)
apartment and in the States.

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, eventually I got it. And it did everything I wanted it to. It was perfect. It was the perfect fit. Like it was just, I couldn't have asked for more. It was just great. Like I picked it up relatively quickly. It wasn't, it wasn't easy. But I think with the background of like windsurfing, winging, kiting, and then I could downwind already, that combination made it relatively easy. So

Daniel Paronetto (17:54)
Yeah. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Gavin (18:15)
The things I had to learn was obviously that I had all the stability with the board. I had all the right gear as well. I had the downwind board. I had the big foils. And so it was pretty seamless for me. Now, I have seen people have different experiences. And again, I think a lot of it's background and gear and conditions, which I'm sure we'll talk about. But yeah, don't get me wrong, I did have some shockers. Like I did the classic, I went out in like five knots on the first one and didn't get it going.

Daniel Paronetto (18:20)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Gavin (18:45)
Then funny old thing, I did that again and then again and then I went then the opposite. Then I went out in like 30 knots with a four meter and just got smashed. And then I had some just dream sessions. I remember the first one where it was just the perfect, like 17 knots. It was sunny. It was in a bay. ⁓ The bumps were good.

Daniel Paronetto (18:53)
yeah, I've been there. Scary. Yeah.

Mmm.

Gavin (19:12)
And I was just like, I came in just going, why isn't everybody not doing this? Like this is the best form of down-wining you can get. I had this area to myself, so where we are, sorry I'm rambling a bit, but like where we are, there's right next to Sydney airport is where we do our runs. And so obviously you can't kite there, but you can parawing, you can wing, everything's fine. But...

Daniel Paronetto (19:16)
Man, I'm the same.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (19:37)
Next to the runway is where the bumps get incredibly good. So they get really steep in a southerly because there's an outgoing tide that just jacks them up. It's basically like, well, I imagine the gorgeous like it's just, you know, it's just really good, but it's very difficult to get to where it's almost impossible to sap because it's so close to the end point. You wouldn't be able to get there and make it cut, make the cut back. So you can only get there winging and you know, everyone knows it's a great winging spot.

Daniel Paronetto (19:44)
Mm-hmm.

Cut, yeah.

Gavin (20:04)
but then you've got the wing train behind you and blah, blah, you know? So on a parawing, it is just nuts. And I'm just, I am often there on my own for an hour and a half just getting like wave after wave after wave after wave. Like it's just unbelievable. Like I think to myself, I'm like, this is what like the first person ever windsurf like who keeper must've thought, like, you know, when they're there on their own, like just getting wave after wave and.

Daniel Paronetto (20:11)
Sensational.

Where

is everyone like, aren't more people getting into it? I ask myself the same thing as well. Like, what do you think is the, the blockage right now for people to jump on it more? Because I thought like, as you said, chyder background, winger background, down-winding background and prone background, I'm assuming as well. when, when I think about where I am here as well, which is a Bay.

Gavin (20:53)
Mmm.

Daniel Paronetto (20:59)
All I want to do is surf. So the best way to do that is with the parawing, because you could do it with the wing, but you have that, you know, in your way all the time. What do you think is preventing people from, from jumping on?

Gavin (21:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm. Yeah.

I think it's a barrier to entry for several reasons. One, think you need the right gear. I think it resonates more with... I think it's been difficult for people that already downwind to jump onto it. That's what I've seen locally, is that my downwind crew snub it. There's a few guys that have come over, but most people look at it and go, no, I'm quite content with my downwind runs. there's some...

Daniel Paronetto (21:29)
Hmm.

Gavin (21:39)
It's the wingers I think will slowly come over. It's the people that see the down, want to give down-winding a go. And I reckon it's probably because as a winger, you're probably going to have to buy a bigger board as well. It probably means as a winger, you're, you know, having to learn a new, a new sport, go back to being humbled again. Like I think it's all, it's the same reasons as learning to downwind, I guess.

But I'm convinced, and I have been since I got the taste of it, that it will end up being a thing. I think it will become really popular because it's got all of the advantages of down-winding with not the pain of being able to do it. Now, the caveat to that is that right now, as you know, particularly the lower end is challenging. And this is a prime example of that. Today we've got, it's forecast 15, it's probably going to be less than that.

Daniel Paronetto (22:14)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Gavin (22:35)
And so that's not a powering day. And so that's when I'm going on my SUP and I'm doing a downwind run. ⁓ And I tend to be relatively strict with that now. That kind of 12 to 15 knots, it has to be right for me to go out powering in those conditions because I think because I can down and SUP, I'll choose to do that. So.

Daniel Paronetto (22:47)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, let's,

let's go back to those people that downwind and are not getting into it because I think there is such a big argument to get into it because what size boards are they using over a hundred liters? What size foils are they using? Probably 900, a thousand when yeah, 1300s and all that stuff.

Gavin (23:04)
Yeah.

Unbelievable, I know, I know. ⁓

Yeah, more, like sometimes, like, you know, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (23:24)
I think once they experience a downwind run on an 80 liter board with an 800 foil and nothing in your hands, man, I remember the first time that that happened. I was laughing. I'm like, this is what it should be because you see these professional athletes doing these prone downwinders and that's reserved for, you know, 0.1 % of foilers out there. And the para wing allows you to do that.

Gavin (23:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (23:54)
It allows you to tap into something that is reserved for like professionals. So I do think they will come around as soon as they cross that little entry barrier of learning the parawing and just experiencing a downwinder with a smaller board. How was that experience for you when you first got into the smaller gear?

Gavin (23:54)
Mmm. Mmm.

That, you know, what you were saying really resonated with me. Again, the laughing. just, I couldn't believe I was doing it. You know, it just, I think I was on a, exactly as you said, I was on a 75 litre board and I was on an 800 foil and I could turn it like I was proning, but this continued for like an hour. And I was just like, it was just unbelievable. And I came into the beach and I was like, I was so excited. I was calling people, just going.

Daniel Paronetto (24:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Gavin (24:43)
my God, guys, you have got to get into this. This is so amazing. And people just weren't on my level of excitement about it. again, honestly, I find it really strange. I think, particularly with the downwind crew, I see a lot of people still in the learning process of downwind and they haven't quite got there yet. And they're really in the hurt a I see them, some people have been doing it for a year and a half and they still haven't broken the back of it because they haven't got the time.

Daniel Paronetto (25:04)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (25:11)
I haven't got the, you know, when I did it, was doing it like day in, day out, like, and, and so when you just turn up and you're doing it at weekend or every so often, you're stretching out that learning process for months, you know, sorry, years, years. And, and I think that this is a great opportunity to like get, get that experience, but in a very condensed timeframe. And I just don't understand why people don't do it.

Daniel Paronetto (25:15)
That's important,

Yeah. Yeah.

Maximize the time out there.

Gavin (25:39)
I think there's also an element of people who have gone down the downwind journey of like, I think you have to be a certain type of person to go down that route because you have to be quite stubborn and focused and dedicated. And I think there's an element of like, I'm not willing to give that up and start something else because I haven't done it yet, I haven't completed it yet. And so I think there is a big element of that. And when I talk to people on the beach, I'm like, yeah, look, I will, but I just want to do this downwind thing. And I keep saying to them, I'm like,

Daniel Paronetto (25:58)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (26:08)
⁓ You can do both, like you can do both, but I think when you get a taste of the parawinging, you will never look back. Like it will just be, and I have to be honest with you, like if I knew what I knew now, I probably wouldn't learn to down and up. would just, yeah. I would just, I would wing and I'd parawing, and that would be the two things I'd do. Like if it was big waves, I'd probably go on the wing.

Daniel Paronetto (26:17)
I agree,

I would jump, I would skip it completely as well. Yeah. But it's... Yeah.

Gavin (26:34)
And then the down winning stuff I then go to powering for sure. It's just, yeah, for me it's a no brainer.

Daniel Paronetto (26:40)
Yeah. Look for him and looking at similar people in my crew here. ⁓ the people that come from a kiting or winging background, five sessions, man, they're up and going, they're doing it. You know, they're able to go on downwind runs a hundred percent. Some of them are taking a little bit longer to go up wind properly and point, you know, the parawing in the right direction. And a lot of the times is I think it's because they're overpowered and the wind range is really, really small. ⁓

Gavin (26:50)
Mmm, yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (27:08)
But I really feel that if you have some sort of background in wind sports, in foiling wind sports, man, you're gonna pick it up quick, very quick. Yeah.

Gavin (27:16)
For sure, for

sure. Yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting now. do think we will see it happen. I will say I there's a lot of people, and I know that you've mentioned this in your podcast in the past, there's a lot of people that are sitting on the fence about it and they're waiting for the best powering to come out. And I'm like, no, just buy whatever is in the shop or available in the secondhand market, whatever it is, grab one and go out. Because they're all good now.

Daniel Paronetto (27:35)
Yeah, I get, yeah.

They all work. Yeah.

Gavin (27:45)
Like even

the BRM, the first one that came out, like you will not go wrong by buying one of those because it gets you on the water, it goes upwind. Yes, like the latest ones are better, there's no two ways about that, but it will get you through the process, get you learning and give you that sort of, I don't know, that adrenaline buzz that you're all after. Like I think that's what I say to everybody. Oh, no, yeah, exactly that. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (27:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. I think you could pick one up for 400, 500 bucks now. That's pretty good.

I paid two grand for that bad boy. Full retail, full shipping, full tax. I'm like, I need it. And I don't regret it one bit. Yeah. So tell us, dude, yeah, it's, ⁓ it was for me, it was really like, ⁓ one of those life changing moments in foiling. Like I, I, this is all I do right now.

Gavin (28:15)
Oh no, yeah. Yeah. No, no, I don't need that. Yeah. No, I totally agree.

Daniel Paronetto (28:35)
Like I took the paddle out probably four times after I started parawinging. Um, but we do. No, I do. But look, it's like you said with the conditions and we had a cracking summer, had like every day, 20 knots sea breeze. in those conditions, man, I'm parowinging. I'm getting a small board, a small foil. Um, and.

Gavin (28:40)
So you don't paddle at all now?

Yeah, I can.

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (28:57)
I changed a little bit as well. What I do instead of doing, you know, trying to get shuttles and all that stuff. just go to a high performing spot and just lap that. Like you said, you know, you're in this high performing little area that, everybody wants to hit and you just do that. You go up wind for 500 meters and you just rip turns. And my turns got like.

Gavin (29:07)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (29:20)
exponentially better. can see it in my videos, like the first ones with the parrowing, I'm just kind of just cruising. Now I'm kind of like cutting back and just really, you know, doing much more, so much more.

Gavin (29:32)
Howling has made my proning so much better. I went, I went proning like, ⁓ you know, interestingly where we live, like the proning is not actually that great. There's a couple of spots, but they only work occasionally. You know, it's actually better just slightly down the coast and up the coast. But anyway, so as a result of it, I tend not to prone that much anymore. I used to do it a lot and I went out for the first time in months and, and I was blown away. was like, my God, I'm actually.

Daniel Paronetto (29:35)
100%.

Gavin (30:02)
really connecting these turns way harder than I ever was before. And I've had a massive break from it. And that comes down to parawinging because it's a similar board, similar foil, and you really can learn. with the parawing, I didn't care if I fall off because I'm up in 30 seconds. that's the, ⁓ yeah. And what else were you saying that resonated with me when you took that?

Daniel Paronetto (30:20)
No, it's just getting up like on a wing. Just as easy.

Gavin (30:31)
So yeah, so again, it's location-based so We have the option of doing proper offshore runs, but we've also got a bay like you know it's not as good as yours, but You know, Bonnie Bay is it can get good, but it needs to be really windy the thing with downwinding that with a suck is that I was getting really bored of it that because You know you're using you have to use a big foil because the beginning of the run is flat So you have to use like we're talking now

Daniel Paronetto (30:50)
Mmm.

Gavin (30:59)
like 1200s, 1100s. And, and so you end up just like, just riding the bumps, and it's all quite consistent and you know, groomed. And I was just doing runs of sort of drifting away just thinking, I think I'm a little bit over this now. Like, it's really interesting, but I never get that in the ocean, because there's so much going on. like, and

Daniel Paronetto (31:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's dynamic, yeah.

Gavin (31:24)
And as you said, like you go through stages of the run where the beginning is terrible, it then gets good for literally like 10 minutes and then it gets rubbish again. And so being able to just stay in that 10 minute zone, that area is just gold. Like you just can't replace that. so, yeah, I just think that location based like that, anyone that lives like in a, there's got an inland lake or a, you know, a Bay area, like don't even bother downwind something. It's not even worth it. Just.

Daniel Paronetto (31:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm. Mm. ⁓

Gavin (31:54)
Get a power and learn that and you'll just have so much of a better time. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (31:59)
Yeah, you just scrape the cream off the top. You let the yucky stuff down there. You just get the cream. That's what we want. ⁓ But let's get into your gear, man. I'm really curious because you write code as well, ⁓ What

are you writing? You mentioned the ⁓ 980S. Do you write any of the R series or are you just more into the S?

Gavin (32:18)
Yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah. So,

⁓ like I'm still figuring it all out because I only just moved over to code. was, I was using Armstrong before. And, and so the code stuff, yeah. So the 980 is like my go-to. And I love that because, ⁓ it's, know, it's got a really good speed range. It turns well and it pumps well. That through those three combinations just mean that and empowering it's really good. I, if it, the better it gets, the windier it gets the, in the S series, I then go down to the 850.

Daniel Paronetto (32:26)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (32:46)
I haven't used the 720 yet, but that's only because we probably haven't had the right conditions for it. I'm sure it would be epic when I do use that. really? Yeah. Yeah, OK. Is it?

Daniel Paronetto (32:48)
Mm-hmm.

Your mind will blow up when you, when you try it. Yeah. It's incredible. It's incredible.

Yeah. That's, that's kind of the range I have from the seven 20, eight 50, nine 80. And I stop at the 11 30. Those are the four that I own. Yeah.

Gavin (33:08)
Yeah,

so I don't, I use the 1130 when I throne it when it's really, really small. And I use that for bay, sorry, I use it for like supping into waves. So I haven't really used it powering that much. Because what I tend to do is if it's a bay, it needs to be windy for us. And then if I'm parawinging out in the ocean, then I'll go to the R series.

Daniel Paronetto (33:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

Gavin (33:37)
So

my go-to is the 880 and the 770. And so I was out yesterday on the 770 and that is so good. It's so good. Again, this is the reason why I'm kicking myself at having used the 720S because I was a bit like, oh, it's quite a small foil, but you get onto it and it's fine. It gets up super early, but it just, I think the...

Daniel Paronetto (33:45)
Yeah, I need to try the seven, seven. haven't tried it yet. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (34:06)
The 860 and the 770, both of those are the two R series that turn really well. And that's what I'm after when I'm powering it. So I don't, you know, I'm not really interested in like the big foils that just glide down. I want to turn because I'm on a small board. And so that's probably as big a foil as I go, the 860R. And again, it's just, I think it's all about matching the foils of the conditions. And so, you know,

Daniel Paronetto (34:12)
Yeah.

Yeah, 100%.

yet.

Gavin (34:34)
when you're going out in the ocean, you want something that's bit faster that can just keep up with the swells. so, the 770 is amazing because it turns, like I'd say, as good as the 980. And I always use the, either the 142 tail or the 120. I do have other tails, but that's all I sort of use, those two. They're my most used ones.

Daniel Paronetto (34:36)
Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Yep. Are those the two tails that you own or do have some more stuff that you chuck in there?

Yeah.

Gavin (35:04)
everything ready so yeah

Daniel Paronetto (35:04)
Yeah. If, if code's listening to this, I would love a smaller AR tail, like a 130 AR. That would be so nice. Cause sometimes the one for two, I find even in the Bay, I find it, it just a little draggy. If it's like a proper 25 knots, you want a little bit more. And then the 120 is fine, but a little spanny, a little bit more locked in. Um, so I would love to see that.

Gavin (35:09)
Yeah... Yeah...

It is, yeah. It is, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. No, I totally

agree. I totally agree. Because I jump between those two all the time. I totally agree with that. It's just something in between. And I think, again, I think that's very, very focused on powering, isn't it? Because we want something that's small that turns well. I've heard people chopping down the 140. I'm not sure whether that... In fact, actually, I know there is stuff coming. Like Josh was talking about it.

Daniel Paronetto (35:35)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (35:55)
Hopefully something like that comes out soon.

Daniel Paronetto (35:57)
And what about fuse

lengths? you play around with that?

Gavin (36:00)
Yeah, I do a lot. So, fuse length, I jump between a medium and a short, and I use a short whenever I'm going for a bigger foil. whenever I want to pump a lot or I want to turn a lot, then I go for a shorter fuse. Or if I'm using a bigger wing. So, if I am actually doing a downwind sup run, I'll put on a really small fuse to the 1075.

Daniel Paronetto (36:05)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (36:26)
or the 1250, that's when I'll put on the small views. And then again, if I wanna pump a lot with the 980, then I'll put a short views on. Yeah, and then what? Yeah, I've not used that.

Daniel Paronetto (36:36)
Nice. You should try the extra small. ⁓ I was surprised because

it, yeah, like I was a little bit concerned because I was Armstrong as well before I, ⁓ started writing code and jumping fuses in Armstrong. I would feel a lot of that pitch like sensitivity. like, I don't know if I want like something twitchy, but I tried the small liked it, tried the extra small and the pitch sensitivity didn't change at all. It just felt like.

Gavin (36:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Daniel Paronetto (37:05)
The 1130, it felt like the 980. It was just turning on a dime. Um, and it, kind of changed a little bit the way I think about how I'm, you know, sizing my gear for the run, because I can be on a 1130 even in 20 knots, which I wouldn't normally very small tail, super short fuse, but I can really feel and bank the turn so much harder because it's a big foil as well. And I see a lot of the guys, um, in the gorge.

Gavin (37:10)
Okay

Daniel Paronetto (37:35)
doing similar things. They don't ride small foils there, but also because it's fresh water, there's a little bit of nuance there. ⁓ but that's something worth experimenting. And I, know, code is amazing with having demos and stuff everywhere. I'm sure you can get your hands on an extra small, give it a crack, man, because I was just surprised at how stable it was. And as I started going down the range to the seven 20, then I start sizing up my fuse. So I use the medium with the seven 20 because then it's a big day.

Gavin (37:47)
Hmm. ⁓

That's exactly what I do.

Yeah, that's exactly it.

Daniel Paronetto (38:03)
You know, the turns are not really

sharp. It's just you trying to keep up with this well really. ⁓ give it a crack, man. I'm really enjoying it.

Gavin (38:07)
Yeah, yeah Yeah

Yeah, no interesting. I will actually I'll have a chance to to the shop. Let's see if I can grab one I was a little bit, you you know, I always get into this like rut of like I know what I like and I stick to it and you know Every so often you should try something different and give it a go. See I will I give that I give that a shot Yeah

Daniel Paronetto (38:22)
Mmm.

Cool. Let's, let's

get into some more gear now. Cause, ⁓ man, I think you're one of the guys that has tried the biggest like number of pair wings out there. Like, I think there's no one out there who has tried more power wings than you.

Gavin (38:30)
Yeah.

I'm sure there's some designers, well they should be. I hope the designers are doing that. But like, I have used a lot now. Yeah. I should have made a list of this. I was thinking about it. Okay, so.

Daniel Paronetto (38:45)
They should be.

So which ones have you tried?

So I'll help you.

Have you tried the Ansys? BRM flow north.

Gavin (38:57)
Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Daniel Paronetto (39:04)
the what's the later the ⁓ ozone

Gavin (39:08)
Ozen Pukeringa.

Daniel Paronetto (39:10)
and do a tone.

Gavin (39:11)
And I've used the, I've used, you know, there's a German company, Born, and I've used the F1 Plume.

Daniel Paronetto (39:13)
Anything else we missed there?

born.

Okay, we'll get into that.

Gavin (39:27)
And

I've used... ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (39:31)
I'm writing plume in a different column in this list.

Gavin (39:34)
Yeah, yeah, so, rightly so.

And then, oh, the 777, double skinned. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (39:39)
Yeah, nice. Oh, you tried that already. Nice. I'm curious to see how you, what do

you think about that? So look, I, I really want to give the viewers an idea of what these pair wings do well. And look at all of them will have strong points, weak points. And that's how it is. Right? If it has a great low end, it's not going to have a great top end. It's not going to go up when that well. Um, and if it goes up when that well, you might struggle a little bit with the bottom end.

Gavin (40:02)
That's it. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (40:09)
things like that, but let's go through this list.

Gavin (40:13)
and the Nash Morse as well. Yeah. I think there's a couple of others ones as well. They'll come to my mind. yeah. I've used quite a Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (40:14)
Ha, the morph, yeah.

We'll go through it. ⁓

and I just want to give the users an idea. So if we talk about a pair of wing, what does it do well and why should you get it? Like what, what, do you think it's for? And I think if we go through this list, ⁓ I've used a couple, haven't used all of these. ⁓ I think it'll just help them understand which one to buy depending on what they want to do with it, because there are different disciplines coming up. If you're a pure downwinder, I think there's certain.

⁓ pair wings out there, will be great. If you need to go up wind, you need to be mindful of what you're getting a little bit because they're not all going up when as, as well as each other. So maybe let's start with just the first one we named here. ⁓ the ensis, what do you think about the ensis? What does it do? Well,

Gavin (40:52)
Mm.

So the, I have to think back at this one. Yeah, so the ends, I totally agree with what you're saying. I think it's, because I get asked this question all the time, which one is the best? What's best for me is not necessarily best for everybody else because of my location, like my skill level, my experience with power wings and all of the above. So the, the end system is, it went up wind well, it packed away well.

Daniel Paronetto (41:16)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (41:36)
but was only a three, I only used the three meter, so all power wings pack away well at a three meter. They come into their own at five. Like I think when you get a five and it packs away well, you know you've got a good one. So it was well made. Its downsides were, and I think they have actually changed this, is that the wing tips would fold in. So it was more stable than the BRM.

Daniel Paronetto (41:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (42:05)
because

it wouldn't collapse completely, but it would fold in and then the drag would increase it come back in the wind window. it what I'd say this probably wouldn't excel in is going upwind in really windy conditions. That's probably where it's like a sort of pitfall is. But where it was really good is it turned really well, it was really maneuverable and it was easy to use. I think that's kind of like the way I say it would say it was very maneuverable. Actually, that's probably one of the

Daniel Paronetto (42:28)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (42:34)
one of the best things about it. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (42:36)
I agree with

that. And the only thing I would add is that if you are concerned about safety and you want, you know, to have some sort of leash connected to it, it has that, ⁓ the B lines that you can connect your safety. ⁓ but, ⁓ agree. ⁓ I think, I think it, it also felt like for me, it felt really easy to pack, but again, it was a three. I tried the three as well, but the fabric was really water wicking.

Gavin (42:42)
Mmm, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

Daniel Paronetto (43:05)
And there's one here that I want to talk about that I've been using recently that I felt like the fabric was a little sticky to my hands because it was so thin, but we'll get to that one. Cool. think that's a great ⁓ summary on the ensis, ⁓ BRM and BRM V1 or V2.

Gavin (43:23)
I've got the V2s coming. they're due today actually, they're due to arrive today. So the BRM, I have to do a massive shout out to them for, the pioneer, the founder, the guy that actually invented it. And what a product they had when they first came out. I think that, ⁓ mate, and it is to this day unmatched for the Pac-O-Wan.

Daniel Paronetto (43:24)
Nice. Yes!

Yeah, they nailed that V1.

It is.

Gavin (43:51)
Like it is incredible, like how well it packs away. And yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (43:55)
It's the fabric, isn't it? Just that silky different, it's not like

a kite crispy fabric. It's just a silky fabric, isn't it? Yeah.

Gavin (44:00)
That's right. It just disappears in your hand and

you're like boom comes down to like this tiny little ball and you know before you know and the belt the concept of the belt so I'm sure we'll talk about this in a moment but like I've played around with loads of different ways of belt of spelt and stowing and getting rid of it. I used to like to not stow it so I used to put it in my hand I did that for a long time and I've now gone back to the belt the original I'm using the ⁓ the ozone belt which is really good like that's really good but the ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (44:09)
Hmm.

Gavin (44:30)
The original BRM belt was really good. where the BRM came into its own was the pack away. it's downfall was being able to handle the upper end because it would like jellyfish and be uncontrollable. I had some pretty bad experiences in a lot of wind. But for somebody that actually wants to do like a downwind send, pack it away and forget about it. That one comes into his own. That one is like...

Daniel Paronetto (44:59)
And good bottom end

on it too. Yeah.

Gavin (45:01)
Really good border end.

Yeah. Yeah, and it flies well It's a really good parawing and I think the new generation of v2s I think that is going to be epic I think that's going to be difficult to beat because from what I've seen they have then now made it stable as well and so It'll be really interesting to see what that was like. But yeah

Daniel Paronetto (45:11)
Yeah.

Hmm.

So BRM

for me, wave riding and downwinding. Because it does go upwind, you know.

Gavin (45:24)
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. It does.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's, you know, I used that for four months solidly in all different conditions. It just, you know, as I said, I don't think they specifically designed it to handle 30 knots going up wind. Like that wasn't in the design brief, but it is now. And I reckon they've done some changes to it now.

Daniel Paronetto (45:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and it's worth mentioning as well, if you are out in 30 knots on a four meter para wing, no matter what brand, you're not going up wind, man. It's just gonna yank you down wind. Next one, Flow.

Gavin (45:53)
Ahem.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓

Flow, market leaders, right? So they were the first ones to bring out power when you could go upwind and it was stable and you could depower off the front lines. And again, that was the second one I had after the BRM and it kind of solved all the problems I had with the BRM. So I was like, oh my God, I'm now in control in gusts. And so for me, the flow comes into its own self-positioning, going upwind.

short periods of time, packing away and coming down again. It doesn't pack away as well as some of the others. That's the only thing I'd say. Like particularly in the bigger sizes, it's a real mission. Like I think, is it a five five or a five? I can't remember. The five, the bigger one. Yeah. That is a challenge. Like when you're, when you're using that, generally the wind's not very big, not very strong, right? The bumps aren't quite good. Like that pushed me to my limits. But I tell you what, it made, it made me real good.

Daniel Paronetto (46:41)
Totally.

Five five. That's huge. Yeah.

Gavin (47:01)
power winger because you then get onto a three meter and it just goes whoop, know, you're just like, so, so yeah, so again, they, they did an incredible job of like their experience with paragliders being able to like incorporate that into a wing that just fly that wind really well, really stable. Great. Yeah. I really enjoyed that one, but I think it's downfall is, you know, I think in the bigger size, it doesn't turn very well and it doesn't.

Daniel Paronetto (47:02)
Yep. ⁓ you're laughing. Yep.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (47:29)
down as well as some of the others. again, think where it comes into its own is for really short self-positioning where maybe you're just going to be holding it for short periods of time rather than doing really long upwind downwinds or self-positioning.

Daniel Paronetto (47:31)
Yeah, totally agree.

You

Like it, think, and I kind of follow the same path BRM to flow. And I think that was a big step in the stability, which now I think is standard. If they don't come out with the stability of the flow, they're kind of behind a little bit. So they, they set the benchmark for that stability and now. Yeah. ⁓

Gavin (48:02)
100%. Yeah. They really did. Yeah.

And unfortunately, they set the benchmark whilst a lot of brands had already gone into production with theirs. Yeah. And so it really knocked the market. So the flow, when that came out, I think a lot of brands, particularly the bigger ones, that they have a delay between when they go solid on a product and like go, yep, we're going to go for it. Let's push the button.

Daniel Paronetto (48:14)
Delayed a little bit, didn't it?

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (48:31)
and then it goes into production, Flow came out in the middle of that and so they couldn't change it. And so now we're seeing some brands that don't have that stability performance and that's no fault of their own. Like it's just timing and size of the brand. But unfortunately for everybody else, Flow really knocked out of the park with that. And now it's the standard. Like if you don't have that, you're like, well, why would I go to another brand when Flow has got that stability? Good on them, ready?

Daniel Paronetto (48:42)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, those two brands, just really nailed their V1s. Next one, North Ranger.

Gavin (49:06)
They did, yeah.

Yeah, so North Rangers, like again, I think the prime example of what I just talking about, I think they they produced something before the flow came to market. And so we're now in competition with a with a wing that goes up when really well. The Ranger comes into its own for it's got a very good low end. And it packs down really well. So that yeah, so so that's where

Daniel Paronetto (49:33)
Huge, huge low end.

Gavin (49:38)
it kind of sits and I think it sits more in the like the very early learner and because it flies well as well and for you know, shuttle drones are going down when I think it doesn't go up wind as well as some of the others. So it doesn't have the leading edge is not as is as secure as everybody else's that in fact they don't they even have like no bad ones. That's what I'm looking for. And so it very quickly

Daniel Paronetto (50:00)
No battens on them, yeah.

Gavin (50:06)
gets very draggy, sits back in the window and then your upwind ability then reduces rapidly. It does go upwind, but there's no two ways about it. And it is relatively stable, but it's not, it doesn't perform as well as some of the other ones out there for going upwind. So I think it sits really, you know, if I was to point someone to for learning, then, you know, I think the North would be a great one.

Daniel Paronetto (50:08)
Mm-hmm.

And the other one, another thing that's worth noting for the North is the price point. Very, very cheap price point. So really good to get into it. And like you said, if you're doing downwind runs only shuttled, ⁓ it's probably the one I would choose because I can go out on a smaller Ranger and. You know, get the same bottom end that I would, and maybe a four meter. So worth, ⁓ worth exploring that one.

Gavin (50:35)
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's it. Yeah.

Yeah, and they're all coming out with different, so that's got a backpack in as well. So you can take potentially two. I do like the idea of a backpack. It is a bit over engineered, you know, that's a really good thing that they've done. what else was I to say about the Ranger? It will come to me. But yeah, they've done really well with it. And I know they are working on another one, which I think will have the next level performance, but they very much focused it at that. Oh, that was what I was going to say.

Daniel Paronetto (51:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Gavin (51:28)
even though it is predominantly for beginners and getting into it, it still goes upwind. It's still a great power ring. You're not going to outgrow it anytime soon. It just doesn't perform quite as well as some of the other

Daniel Paronetto (51:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I mean, you just have to be doing a couple more tax to get to where you want to get to. And look, it will get you a little bit more tired. You might have to have a harness just to maximize, you know, and you'll get in tune with the gear as well. And you'll try to extract as much as, as you can. The one thing that I was a little disappointed was just in the color coding. do have a color coded leading edge, but not the lines and the bar. That's the, those are little basic things that I'm sure, you know, you know, you can get used to it, but it's nice.

Gavin (51:51)
That's what, yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly, man. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Again, they went

into production with it before that became apparent, I think. So yeah, interesting.

Daniel Paronetto (52:19)
I think, yeah.

⁓ from the North, let's go to maybe the opposite side of the scale, the ozone pocket rocket.

Gavin (52:28)
Yeah, the Ozone.

Yeah, that is great parawing. They like, yeah, they have really hit the nail on the head with it. And it comes at no surprise that these guys have been doing water sports and they've been doing paragliding. It was a match made in heaven and they produced a really great parawing. I love it. For me, it's my favorite because again, like I've to be careful what I say because I've only got a three. I've only used a three so I don't know what the bigger ones are like but

Daniel Paronetto (52:32)
It's a good one, isn't it?

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (52:56)
The 3 packs well, it goes upwind, it's stable. So for my type of powering in, it works really well. I really enjoy the bar, simple color coatings, great. It's really stable in gusts. I love that. ⁓ So yeah, at the moment I'm using that one more than anything else. Very, very well designed. I'm struggling to find bad things about it. Like lots of people have asked me and...

Daniel Paronetto (53:24)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (53:26)
I have heard rumours that the bigger sizes don't turn as well. I don't know if that's true. Yeah, exactly that. Yeah, exactly that. So yeah, think hats off to Ozone at the moment. They've done a great job there. I think that's...

Daniel Paronetto (53:31)
to be expected though isn't it? mean it's a bigger size and yeah.

Yep. I've gotten one recently

and I've, I've, had a massive session on it just two days ago, 30 knots on the three. So I was overpowered. ⁓ but I was flying upwind. Like all the wingers were like, they came to me after the session and you're like, man, you were doing better angles that I was doing. And they're not bad wingers either. And that kind of, for a few of them, they're like, I think I think I need one now.

Gavin (53:49)
yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (54:11)
because they're all on the fence of how this thing goes up wind. And I'll tell you right now, man, any pair of wing will go up wind. There's nothing in any of these brands that you will not be able to go up wind. Like they will, they will do it. Um, and the other thing, so this is the one that I wanted to talk about the fabric. I like that the fabric is super thin. I think it's a 32 gram fabric from memory.

Gavin (54:11)
Yeah. Goes up wind. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (54:37)
But

this one, when I, and I'm using their belt as well, which by the way is the best belt I've used as well. It's absolutely ⁓ amazing. But I felt that when I was stowing it, would, it would kind of stick to my hand.

Gavin (54:43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Interesting. Yeah, I've not noticed that. Yeah, okay. I understand what you're saying because like, you know, it's like a plastic bag that sometimes just like gets to the... Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (54:54)
It's an

Yeah, like if it's wet and your hands are wet, I was trying

to put it in the belt and I was kind of like, you know, just trying to get it out of my hands at some point. So I'm like, just, yeah, just let go. ⁓ I'm not quite sure. And I, and look, it, I had two sessions on it, so it's not enough to, to give too much out there. ⁓ but it did feel a little sticky, but I'm sure that might be a coding they use or something like that, that I, that it just felt a little different for me. And then the other thing.

Gavin (55:07)
Bring it. Yeah. Interesting.

Daniel Paronetto (55:29)
And again, like you, I do feel it's ahead of the game. So we'll rank these soon because we have to. ⁓ but, I felt that the lines were a little bit more prone to tangling. was the first time that I got like, ⁓ knots, proper knots in the lines.

Gavin (55:38)
.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, so interestingly, I mentioned that in the review I did. I had that in the, it's the, the brake lines, the back lines, there's like knots on the, and they're quite prominent and they end up sometimes getting now recently it hasn't happened. So it happened a lot at the beginning and I don't know whether they've just either talk or taught or they've like now, you know, stretched and it doesn't really happen that much anymore.

Daniel Paronetto (56:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nice. Cause it might be you getting used to the gear as well, because I noticed that happened when I was, you know, I stowed it and it wasn't great, but the other brands, because maybe the lines are a little bit thicker, it kind of undoes. can pull a line and get away, you know, like when you just, you get away with some things.

Gavin (56:15)
The last two... That's true, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, no,

I know, I know what you mean. And that but it hasn't happened to me for a while now. So it hasn't happened for probably about a couple of weeks, which is interesting, because I've used it quite a lot. that I've been quite, you know, I've been looking for it, like I've been looking for that time because I was expecting it. And I was like, Okay, that's fine. It happened. And the other thing I want to say about the ozone is that the thing I noticed is that it has all the upwind performance of the flow.

Daniel Paronetto (56:36)
Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Gavin (56:57)
but the flow, think it's much more tuned than the flow. It's much, it's more, there's less flapping going on. It's much more stable and it's silent going upwind. That's the thing that I noticed about it. It kind of like, it just, it sits there really well. It's really well tuned. And I think, again, that's probably years and years of paragliding, you know, experience that's gone into it.

Daniel Paronetto (57:02)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm, I know what mean.

Yeah. And I think if you're like into

doing tax and things like that, it's the easiest one to do it. It's so easy to throw a tack. Yeah. It just is shoots up when, I think one, one term that I think we don't talk about enough in these pair of wings is drive, which is how much the pair wing kind of like sucks air into it and just allows the air to flow. And I feel like the ozone so slippery, like it's so fast. has that high top end.

Gavin (57:23)
Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's really easy to tack. Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm, yeah.

Yeah. It is. Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (57:48)
⁓

And the last thing I want to say that I just have some notes on the on the ozone that stickiness of the material and maybe because it was wet I found it when I'm relaunching it. I was like kind of tugging I wanted to open a little bit quicker And the flow because it's a little bit more crispy you chuck it out and goes Like it's just relaunches really nicely and the ozone I actually found myself like picking a leading edge to let a little air in sometimes

Gavin (58:03)
Hmm... Hmm...

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (58:17)
So it would relaunch. So that's the only difference I felt, but amazing, amazing parrying. Let's move on because we have a lot to talk about. The duotone, I haven't tried the duotone. What do you think about that one?

Gavin (58:17)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's really interesting you saying about the sticky thing. I found that with the Duotone, like a little bit sticky to the hand. So again, it's a very, very thin material. Now the big advantage of that is like it packs down like the BRM. It's really good. It flies really well in light winds. it's really, it just wants to sit there. don't have to like, you know, manhandle it anywhere. And I used the five in probably like,

Daniel Paronetto (58:38)
Mmm.

Gavin (59:02)
10 knots, I think. I knew the flow would be like a mess and this one was just in the air. I was like, wow. Yeah, really tough conditions. So I was really impressed with that. Now the big disadvantage of it, it's got this twin skin tips, is great when they're flying and it's working. The big problem with these is as soon as they get submerged, they fill with water.

Daniel Paronetto (59:09)
Tough conditions for a para wing 10 knots.

Gavin (59:28)
When it's windy, it's not a problem. The wind just blows it out and it's fine. But if you're using it at five meter in like 10 knots, it's a real pain to get rid of that water. It's a real pain. And then it has a massive negative impact on the flying. it's kind of this one of like, if you're an absolute beginner and your powering skills aren't that great, I wouldn't recommend it. Whereas if you're somebody that has got some skills flying a parawing, then it's amazing. So if you keep it in the air,

Daniel Paronetto (59:31)
Mm-hmm.

I can see that.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (59:57)
It's incredible. If it properly, and I'm talking properly submerges, then that can be an issue. When I say an issue, like 10 seconds and it was sorted, but it was just something that you just like, okay, like I'm having to work pretty hard here where, yeah. Yeah. But it packs down really well. It turns really well. But again, it's one of the companies that they've let themselves down with the

Daniel Paronetto (1:00:14)
You could live without it, but if you have it, it's not a, yeah, it's not something. Yeah.

Gavin (1:00:27)
colour scheme, like the whole leading, it's all pink. So they've got one little square in the middle, but that's not enough. You need the whole leading edge to be in your face so that you can go boom, there it is. And so exactly that, yeah. And it happens all the time. With the ozone, where I pack it down, I always know that the white's at the front there until I can just let it go and off we go. So yeah, it's interesting.

Daniel Paronetto (1:00:28)
Mmm. Yeah.

You want to see it from the corner of your eye almost. Yeah, I agree with that.

Mm-hmm.

And the cool thing about the ozone

as well is that I can even distinct, like look at left and right because the wingtips are different colors. And I love that, man. think it's like the more you ride with that, the more you're, ⁓ you're, you, you just adapt to that kind of visual and you know where it's going. It just becomes intuitive. And if you don't have that, it just, I don't know why you wouldn't, be honest, cause it's so easy to incorporate that.

Gavin (1:00:58)
Ahem.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:01:23)
⁓

Gavin (1:01:23)
Yeah,

that's a good one.

Daniel Paronetto (1:01:25)
Yeah, I'm keen to try that one. haven't, I don't even know who's selling them in Victoria, but I'll, I'll chase that one up. ⁓ Nash morph.

Gavin (1:01:34)
Yeah, so that one was the first one that had the pulley system. So, so sort of self trimming. So the good things about it, again, quite high aspect ratio, color scheme was epic, goes up when really well. It's the wing tips do fold in slightly when it's overpowered. So I think the upper range isn't that great. But because of the pulley system, it then means that the lower end is pretty good. So it's got, it has got like a really good low end and it's

Daniel Paronetto (1:01:37)
pulley systems, yeah.

Gavin (1:02:02)
and it's very well trimmed and it flies beautifully. The very top end is lacking a little bit because again, the tips just fold in slightly. The big issue that I had with it was where the pulley connects to the bar. It's so close to where your finger, because you know you're always holding a power in the front, right? Like where your hand is against the pulley, it sort of like sandwiches it, sort of squeezes it in.

Daniel Paronetto (1:02:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I understand,

Gavin (1:02:31)
So they just need to extend that a little bit. That's it. Exactly that, yeah. So it's an easy fix. But yeah, that's, and I think the bar is just one color as well. I like to have a bar where again, you just got, you know, top and bottom so you know really quickly when you're grabbing it which side you're getting. It's not so much of an issue.

Daniel Paronetto (1:02:33)
Have little bridles, maybe just like a two centimeter bridle or something just to...

Yeah. And that's important because it's

yet some people think, can like, you don't need it. But when you're unpacking something that looks like a train wreck and you will have those moments, just being able to grab it. And then you're like, you're not thinking about it. And then you're already on the leading edge. Man, it is like a hundred times easier.

Gavin (1:02:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

man, and like, that's your known constant, isn't it? The bar is the first thing I go for is right, I've got the bar now, I know that's up, right, cool, now we can work out from everything else, but don't let go of this, everything else is set. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's a good power, again, some changes need doing to it, but it is good.

Daniel Paronetto (1:03:18)
Mm-hmm.

Hopefully it falls into place.

⁓ the triple seven man, what's that like first do like double skin. What is it for?

Gavin (1:03:36)
Mmm. Yeah, okay.

So, good question. So, I've only used it once and I used it pretty much, so got four meter and it was overpowered, it was 30 knots, so it was windy. But the guy said, use it in wind. And so was like, okay. So, it's a real challenge to fly. Like it takes way more skill than anything else that I've used. So.

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:01)
Really?

Is it like more of a Ram-Kite

that you really need to be on the rear lines and just like understand?

Gavin (1:04:11)
That's it. Yeah,

the turning of it. you can't just like, you know, with most powering, you just go, it's like a joystick, you know, it's really simple, stupid. Whereas this, you've got to yaw at first, you know, almost like create the space and then dive it down. So it's like, you're doing, yeah, you're doing yaw and then roll. So you've got to go, you know, do this in the camera, you've got to go yaw and then roll. And that, that then turns around. So you've got to do that on air every time you're turning. And so quite often I'd find

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:26)
like a kite.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (1:04:41)
when I was getting it up, it was like I wasn't doing that and then tip would hit the water and then it's game over. Like it is just, boom, the whole thing is now like, dude, you're there in like 10 minutes and I was drifting downwind and I was like, I started off like it was on the shore anyway and then the foil was hitting the bottom and I was like, ⁓ and then I came into that. And then again, like the double skin doesn't pack down very well.

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:47)
Yeah. That's the double skin.

Mmm.

Gavin (1:05:08)
So for me, the whole point of powering is, as you mentioned before, small board, small foil, nothing in your hands. Like that for me is where, whereas at this you have to, you just have to collapse it off the front lines and then you've got all this material dangling, which is fine for short runs. But so I'm on the fence with it at the moment because I haven't really used it in its full capacity, but I've been told it goes up wind really well and it's super stable. So I think

Daniel Paronetto (1:05:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, I was

going to ask like how it would be very like it would perform really well going up when I'm assuming.

Gavin (1:05:41)
Yeah,

but the small session I had, it did go to wind really well. I was like, is it going up wind better than the ozone? I was like, I don't know if it is. think I'm pretty much, I didn't feel like I was pointing into the wind like you would with a kite. I was like, well, I think, you

Daniel Paronetto (1:05:51)
Enough. Yeah.

Well, that's what it needs

to have. If it's going to have a double skin, it needs to be for me. I would see it as the ultimate like parrowing up with the paddle so you can freaking yank up wind and then do your downwind run with the paddle. see, I see that use case for it, but if it's not really delivering in the upwind angle and it has to be like significantly better than it's.

Gavin (1:06:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah,

so I don't wanna slag it off because it's probably a lot to do with user error. I'm just used to flying, the powering that I'm used to, and I probably, I just didn't spend enough time on it. So I think the jury's out on this one at the moment. I wasn't sold by it. I didn't go on it straight away. was like, this is epic. I certainly wouldn't recommend a beginner to use it. It would...

Daniel Paronetto (1:06:40)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Gavin (1:06:51)
It would put somebody off parawinging, think, they used that the first time, because it's so challenging to fly. Very different.

Daniel Paronetto (1:06:55)
I am speaking with, ⁓

with Al jazz to come into the podcast and I really want to dissect it a little more. Cause I think it's probably the parawing that has a very small adoption at the moment because of the double skin. So we don't know enough about it. ⁓

Gavin (1:07:00)
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right. Yeah, yeah.

So I think it just needs, I need more time on it. I need to, you know, put away all my other power wings and give it a good go. But I can see it going up really well, but it just needs a bit more skill. That was my first takeaway from it. Definitely not a beginner kite or wing, whatever, couldn't have.

Daniel Paronetto (1:07:31)
⁓

The Bourne.

Gavin (1:07:35)
The Bourne, look, I wasn't a big fan of the Bourne. I found the lines were just too long. Again, it sort of, didn't really, yeah, it didn't really achieve what I wanted, which was to be able to pack away and nothing in your hands. I used it in the early days and it was so, I found the material was much heavier than the BRM. The only thing I could compare it to at the time was the BRM. And the lines were too long. Like the pack away was just too much of a,

Daniel Paronetto (1:07:43)
That's tough.

Gavin (1:08:04)
you know, it would be a line length and there'd be still like half a metre of line and pow wing dangling with my full reach and I was like, well, now I'm in this scenario where I've got to like, you know, sort that out and downwind. It flew well, but it didn't, it didn't achieve the aim for me. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:08:05)
A reach.

And look, think a lot of people

underestimate the, like how important the line length is for stowing. And I think that's something that Greg really, ⁓ explored a lot with this V2. He has different line lengths for all of them. And the one that packs well is one that you could just go like, it's, you know, it's super small. And I know a lot of the, the ozone riders in Maui, Sinbad and I, like I'm texting them continuously about the ozone.

Gavin (1:08:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:08:50)
They've reduced their lines by nine and a half inches, which is a lot like that is. ⁓ and I'm like, well, are you losing bottom end? what they have a lot of wind. So I don't recommend people just chop, like slicing their line straight away. ⁓ but they say it's working fine. And if you have like a three meter and you're going to be using in strong winds anyway, ⁓ they're saying that it's turning amazing. The pack is just phenomenal.

Gavin (1:08:55)
Yeah, okay, interesting. Yeah, yeah, that is a lot. Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

Daniel Paronetto (1:09:20)
⁓ so I don't know, man, I still pay for my parowings. I'm not, I'm not crazy about cutting lines yet, but

Gavin (1:09:21)
Yeah.

No, I'm not gonna do that, yeah. Yeah,

I think, yeah, it's, yeah, right now it's, it's working for me. Like, I think, you know, yeah, I think, yeah, that's right. I'm scared to touch bread.

Daniel Paronetto (1:09:35)
It's working. Don't touch it. Don't touch it. ⁓ That's the list, man. We

got the plume as well. ⁓ I saw it for the first time on the beach just a few days ago. And the person that was using it said, do you want to have a go? I'm like,

Gavin (1:09:43)
Yeah, the plume, yeah, yeah, so.

Daniel Paronetto (1:09:56)
No, because I come from kiting, man, and even walking with a kite on the beach, I know how draggy it is and they say there's no drag. That thing is just flappy and I'm, I don't know. What do you think about it?

Gavin (1:10:07)
Oh dude, yeah, yeah.

yeah, the first time I used it was in a proper downwind run where I got shuttled. And it was a real mistake because you should never do, but it was just on-off and I stupidly took it. And then, so what I did is I had a belt and I took a, I had a flow that I knew that I could get up. I knew it well and I was like, worst case now I'm just gonna deflate this thing, pack it away and I'll just use the flow and I'll be fine.

And so it took me ages to figure it out. because it's like a kite, it sits so far forward in the wind window. It's really difficult to get up onto foil because you don't have any power. really just, it's natural point is like really far forward. And so I ended up taking forever to get up onto the foil and it was windy. was like, it was a solid 30 knots and I think I had the four and I just, yeah, I just couldn't get up. I was just like, what the

Daniel Paronetto (1:10:42)
Hmm.

Mmm.

wow.

Yeah.

Gavin (1:11:06)
And then,

so eventually what I did is I put it, I started just drifting downwind with it, and then that's what got me up onto foil really quickly. So I just had to let it, almost stall it downwind. And then that's when I got up onto foil. And then I quickly turned it upside down, like you were holding a kite, and did the whole downwind run. it was annoying. It was just flapping away the whole time, and just getting, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:33)
can't imagine,

Gavin (1:11:35)
And you just happen that you're moving it like it was working. That was doing it was downwinding. You know, it's like, yeah, okay, cool. Um, and I did the whole run like that. And at the end of it, I was like, I'm never using this again.

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:46)
Is it easier? the experience better than a wing?

Gavin (1:11:50)
It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And so I was gonna get onto that. I then got to the bottom of the run and then started doing laps of where I said that was where the good point is. And then I was like, ah, I get it now. So launching it's pretty easy. So you just turn it back upside again, the handle then just dangles and then you just grab it. There's no tangling. And then...

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:51)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (1:12:16)
it goes up wind so well. You know we were saying before about the double skin, this thing goes up wind like remarkably better than anything else because it sits so far forward and it handles wind incredibly well. The four meter, I was just completely in control the whole time. And so I think where it really comes into its own is just doing really small runs but you are holding something in your hand the whole time that flaps.

Daniel Paronetto (1:12:18)
It would, yeah.

Interesting.

Gavin (1:12:44)
That's the downside of it.

Daniel Paronetto (1:12:45)
Do you think then

like I'm trying to find use case, a use case for it. And if I am one of those downwind guys that wants to stay on the paddle, would it be a good tool to, you know, on a cross onshore day to take you out on a good angle, maybe five Ks, you know, into the ocean or whatever, and then have a better angle to go downwind and use it more to like maximize.

the wind direction in any day and always get a run or you don't like because it goes up wind really well.

Gavin (1:13:20)
Yeah, but I think a parawing just does all that and packs away better. You know, that's the difference, it? Like I think where it comes into it's definitely easier to use than a parawing. It flies much easier, there's less tangles, there's less things that can go wrong. But the big disadvantage of it is you obviously can't back it away. So I think it sits with like the learner self-positioner going in.

you're not going to get the same experience of parawinging. It doesn't feel the same with the small boards, with everything away. But it definitely is definitely better than winging and it's easier than parawinging. So for somebody that kind of like is on the fence, doesn't quite want to commit to the parawinging and go through the kite mares, then this is an option I think. But I don't think we'll see other brands bringing them out. I don't think we'll see that. I think this is a bit...

Daniel Paronetto (1:13:55)
Yeah.

kind of agree.

Gavin (1:14:17)
bit of an F1 thing and I don't know. see. Exactly. Yeah, I saw that. It was interesting. It came out like, so yeah, you know, they're kind of, I think they're trying to invent a new sport, but I just don't think that it replaces, I don't think there's enough of a gap in the market to have it, if I'm honest with you. I don't know. We'll see. Like, it was difficult.

Daniel Paronetto (1:14:21)
And they ⁓

Well, all of this stuff, yeah.

until somebody does a backflip on it and they're like, ⁓ it's the best thing ever.

Gavin (1:14:47)
That's it. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (1:14:49)
Gav,

I'm aware we are running out of time here. You're on a hard stop. We've got five minutes, man. What would you like to wrap this up with? I have tons of questions here, but is there anything that you feel you wanna touch on?

Gavin (1:14:59)
and

⁓ God, there's so much, isn't it? haven't even talked about, ⁓ I think the, let me just have a little list of things I always wanted to talk about. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'll touch, maybe I'll just touch on, ⁓ on leashes and harnesses because I get, I get asked that I'll do really quickly. talk because I know that, I know that you don't.

Daniel Paronetto (1:15:13)
Yeah. And we'll do, we'll do another one, man. Like there's, you're one of the guys that like, can just talk about parowinging for, for days and there's a lot of information to get out, but yeah. What, what do you want to.

Yeah, let's go.

Gavin (1:15:34)
You don't use either, you? You're no leash, no harness.

Daniel Paronetto (1:15:36)
I know I don't,

but I have a story about it with the ozone. That was horrific, but I want you to talk first.

Gavin (1:15:41)
Okay. Okay. So,

yeah, okay. So, interestingly, I have now gone away from a leash. And I just so I just use a harness now. So that happened because I was I was getting these new power wings and I'm the same as you I still buy them. I buy them and sell them to keep the the the channel going. So I find that really important. Like, if a company sends me something, then I have

like ownership to do a good review on them, otherwise it makes them look bad. Whereas if I buy it, then I can do what want. don't have to say, so what I tend to do is I buy them and I bargain them to do it at wholesale and so it's cheaper and then I can sell them on and then that way I can just rotate. So that's kind of, and as a result of that I was getting through quite a lot of power wings. And so I...

Daniel Paronetto (1:16:17)
Mm-hmm.

That's great.

Gavin (1:16:34)
A lot of them don't have harness connections and I didn't have to. So I started with these new power winds, not using a harness and actually I was like, I'm not sure if I really need it or not. I don't know. And it definitely is easier to pack away. There's one less thing for it to get in the way. But the harness for me, I use the harness from like Day Dot and I just, a couple of times I've used it without it and I just, I hate it. Like I don't enjoy it without a harness. I love just flipping locked in and then I can just relax and go upwind.

Daniel Paronetto (1:16:53)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (1:17:03)
And again, for me, because it's all about self-positioning, that's all I want to do is just go upwind, downwind. So I spend a lot of time going upwind, locked into the harness. so yeah, so for me, I've gone full circle side now. But I still recommend people using a leash at the very beginning and then potentially taking it off when you're starting to pack it away and then maybe revisiting it later on. I do find...

Daniel Paronetto (1:17:07)
Mm-hmm.

That's a good tip.

Mm-hmm.

Gavin (1:17:31)
Having a leash onto the trailing edge is a great way of being able to sort your crap out. So I've done it a few times where I've been in really big conditions and my board's in one place, everything's everywhere. You can just let go and then get onto the board, sort yourself out, have a rest and then gather it in and off you go. So it does have its advantages but it definitely is one less thing for it to get caught on. And as you know,

Daniel Paronetto (1:17:37)
Mm-hmm.

Gavin (1:17:59)
how in lines like gravitate like they just will grab yeah yeah so

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:02)
If you have a thought, will tangle on that thought. It's horrible. It will tangle on anything. yeah, look, I don't,

I don't wear any of those things, but I got really used to the, feeling of writing unhooked and I liked the simplicity of it. And, ⁓ the one thing that happened to me in this session with the ozone, I was writing and a gust came through and it just pinged out of my hand and it just went.

Gavin (1:18:19)
Yeah, yeah, and I can understand that. ⁓

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:31)
It went so high and it was like 30 meters ahead of me and it landed with the bar upwind and the leading edge just out of the water and I could not get to it swimming.

Gavin (1:18:33)
really? Jesus. Yeah, okay.

heard a couple people talk about this.

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:48)
And that happened to Dylan

from the X-Foils ⁓ podcast. And he, he'd said that to me. I'm like, man, that's never going to happen. it happened. I had him in my mind when I was swimming towards the parrying. I'm like, Dylan, it happened to me as well. But eventually it, it caught enough water that it sank and I had a little bit of a leading edge still out. And, but I was completely wrecked because it took me 10 minutes of swimming downwind.

Gavin (1:18:51)
That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hahaha!

my god.

Daniel Paronetto (1:19:17)
you know, really like I'm going to lose this thing to get to it.

Gavin (1:19:17)
Yeah. Yeah. my god. God, if that happened out in the open ocean, you'd be like.

Daniel Paronetto (1:19:25)
Exactly. So just, I think it's just worse that we didn't talk about safety at all, but if you are going out in the ocean and you're doing a downwind run and you're going to pack it up once. Might not be the worst thing in the world to have some sort of connection to it because you're not going to be redeploying it. You're not consistently. So once it's in the belt, it's not supposed to come out of.

Hmm.

Nice.

Mmm.

Yeah, everything will get better, right? The leashes will get better.

Same, yeah.

Look, it happened to me. was one of those freak things and I'm out there on the parowing all the time and it never happened to me before. we'll see. Look, I'm conscious of time, mate. I don't want to keep you on for too much longer, thank you so much, man, for coming on. ⁓ I've been, dude, I've been following you for ever since I got into the parowinging as well. So I have to thank you for all the information you put out because it helps so many people.

And that's the whole point. Let's keep doing it. Let's get the information out there and hopefully, you know, parowinging just continues to grow.

Absolutely.

Yeah, man, as, as much as you want, man, tag me on stuff, um, about like when it's rolling, let's keep the, bit of momentum. Let's do like some daily check-ins on how the, how the auction's going. So happy to help, man.

Cheers, guys.

011_Gavin Blake: YouTube Parawing Reviewer Compares Each Brand

GET THE FREE GUIDE