005_Dylan Shewfelt: From The X-Foils Podcast

Season #1 March 30, 2025

Dylan is an experienced all-round foiler with an amazing background in kitesurfing. His ability to transition between different foiling disciplines has sped up his progression in Parawinging and helped him evolve at a very rapid pace. In this episode Dylan and I chat about various parawinging techniques likes gybing and sinker starts, he tells us the story about how he lost a parawing in the water and dissect the latest parawings in the market.

Don’t forget to subscribe for more foiling tutorials, down winding tips, and parawing techniques to elevate your water sports skills. Leave a comment or question below, and share your own experiences with foiling in the open ocean!

Enjoy the vibes! Keep the comments coming as it helped me heaps from the first video!

@foilrat on Instagram

#Parawinging #Parawing #Foiling #DownWinding #Winging

Episode Transcript

Daniel Paronetto (00:11)
Welcome to the Lab Rat For the podcast. My name is Dan and today we have Dylan. How are you, man?

Kite Puerto Rico (00:17)
What's up? Nice to be here. Thanks, man. I'm good.

Daniel Paronetto (00:19)
This is a co-hosted podcast with the X-Foyles podcast. So you do your introduction now. How do you normally introduce your guests? I feel like I'm a guest and a host today.

Kite Puerto Rico (00:24)
Yeah, so welcome to my podcast, Daniel.

You know, it's bit, you know, we're going to be switching it up. We'll see how it goes. I'm Dylan. Welcome to the X-Files Podcast. I'm sitting here with Daniel.

Daniel Paronetto (00:42)
Love that. This

is so weird, but look, this is going to be a deep dive into parowinging and everything that I think both of us have experienced so far. If you are watching this on video, Dylan has a few power wings in the background that we'll definitely touch on and talk about. You got the North, the Flow, the Yensis, and what's the last one again?

Kite Puerto Rico (01:05)
So BRM and then the wave star from born. Yeah, it's tucked in there. There she is. The trusty old BRM.

Daniel Paronetto (01:08)
Wave star, ah, the BRM's in there. couldn't see it. just, Tucked in there. Nice. The BRM, man,

what a legend. Greg coming up with this thing that everybody's frothing now and probably 2025 is gonna be the year of the parawing.

Kite Puerto Rico (01:26)
I mean, this spring, I mean, it's I mean, these are all I could get my hands on. But I mean, I don't know how it is for you guys over in Australia, but it's been really I mean, it's been extremely difficult to get our hands on pair of wings. You know, it was BRM and that was essentially it and sis. And then finally we got some flows and we're just kind of waiting. And I think the market's going to kind of blow up here in a second.

Daniel Paronetto (01:27)
Mmm.

Everybody's gonna come out the same time with their thing. Ozone just came out with their pocket rocket and they're all looking really good and they all work, right? I think it's worth mentioning, like all these pair wings are working for what they're meant to do.

Kite Puerto Rico (02:04)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think we can get in and deep dive into each single one, of course, and, you know, nitpick every little thing. But essentially, if if you want to get up on foil and. You know, pack it away and you don't need anything extreme. I mean, they're essentially just fancy trash bags.

Daniel Paronetto (02:10)
Mm-hmm.

They are. And I wish the price would come down

a little bit on these fancy trash bags because you do need a few of them. But before we get into all that stuff, why don't we, chat a little bit about your background Dylan. Cause I think a lot of people getting into power winging now are expecting a lot from their first couple of sessions. And I feel that a lot of people reach out to me with a lot of frustration and you have a very interesting background coming from various like different.

Kite Puerto Rico (02:29)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (02:53)
foiling disciplines and sports disciplines. So what got you into foiling from the start?

Kite Puerto Rico (02:59)
So I'm a kiter. I've got a kiteboarding background and I was a snowboarder originally, but when I was 16, I relocated back to Mexico and I was like, when's my next snowboard trip, you know, not going to happen. So I saw kiteboarding and I picked it up and I was 16 and after my first lesson, I just never left the beach. And I just, that's what I did every single day was just go to the beach, kite became an instructor, took over the school, opened my own school and

I mean, I'm still doing it. So I came into foiling from kiting, which I think if you're a kiter, it's the easiest way to get into foiling is just throw a foil under your feet. You've already got the kite under control and take it from there. And I was super lucky to be in Cabarete and catch on to it pretty early on in like 2013. yeah. And it didn't take long. I had Jeremy Green from Jupiter Kiteboarding.

Daniel Paronetto (03:30)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Awesome, 2013, yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (03:58)
He was there and he had kind of figured it out beforehand. It was a lift foil, full carbon setup. So I didn't have to go through strapping boots on my feet and putting on this aluminum, none of it. So I could have gotten into it earlier, but I didn't even know about it. It just wasn't accessible. Being in Mexico, just didn't have... I mean, in my area of Mexico, was in Cancun, Playa del Carmen. I know that in Baja, they were early on to it.

Daniel Paronetto (04:03)
Nice. Yeah. Yep, none of that.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (04:26)
Right. So, but I,

Daniel Paronetto (04:27)
Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (04:27)
I wasn't into that scene on that side. So super lucky to be going to Cabaret day every summer and kiting every day and picking up foiling. And, that's, that's how it kind of started getting into foiling.

Daniel Paronetto (04:40)
And you,

you got, well you got kite foiling and then you started winging just as a, another discipline that came up and you were like, yep, I can do that too. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (04:50)
Yeah, for sure. mean, you

know, when you first see it winging, you looked at it you're like, huh? Like, I don't know. You're like, don't know if that's going to be a thing. And I and I had a there's a guy here, old school windsurfer racer. He had a windsurfing school, Kiko Del Mao. did a podcast with him and he was early on to it as well. Like right when it came out, we both looked at it like, shit, that's it looks cool. But is it going to be something? He's like, it's going to be the future.

Daniel Paronetto (04:57)
I know.

Mmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (05:19)
He's like, forget about your kites. We're going to be wing foiling. And I was like,

Daniel Paronetto (05:23)
I didn't have that.

I didn't have that impression as well. I love it. How people, some people just see the potential and I wasn't aware of what it would become at all. was like oblivious to that and I shat on it for a long time. Like I'm never going to do it. Never. Yeah. And then I eventually got into it and did it for a while.

Kite Puerto Rico (05:39)
really?

Yeah, I guess it was it was kind of like right before COVID is when it started coming out. I bought the first slingshot wing. It had an inflatable leading edge on the back. You know, yeah, it had the leading edge was inflated and the trailing edge was inflated. No, no, no, that came out after and I think that was worse. so I had their first sling, I think slingshot.

Daniel Paronetto (05:48)
Mm-hmm.

that the triangular one like that kind of arrow shaped one?

Jesus. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (06:12)
I don't know who came up with it first, the first people I saw doing it were Slingshot, right? Slingshot and Hood River were wing foiling. And so I ordered one from Slingshot, a 4.2, and I was trying to ride it on my 40 liter kite foil board, my race board, with a normal foil in 14 knots. like, this is how you're going to do it. And I mean, I just, I just couldn't do it for, for like weeks. I just did the same thing over and over with a sinker board, with a 4.2.

Daniel Paronetto (06:32)
shit.

Yeah, impossible.

Kite Puerto Rico (06:42)
No idea. Yeah, struggle bus for sure. But there was no, didn't really, I don't really research many of these things, like how to do it. I kind of just figured it out on my own. And then when I was suffering for so long, walking up the beach and everyone's laughing at me, they're like, you know, look at this guy. And I'm like, you're going to see, man, you're to see what I'm going to do with this.

Daniel Paronetto (06:43)
struggle.

Mm-hmm.

I like that. I like the...

Hmm. dude, yeah, I like that. I think that

instinct of just trying and I think there's something cool about just make working it out. I love that. And I think it just helps you in the future just to be able to accept things. I had to bite my tongue a few times with foiling with these disciplines coming out. And now when I see something new, I just like, you know, there's potential. I don't know what it is, but there might be something in it.

Kite Puerto Rico (07:28)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you never know what I mean, who knows what we're going to be doing in a month. Like, knows? I have no idea. But the winging. Yeah, I got a bigger board. was covid, so we were all locked down. But when I finally figured it out, I got like a bigger foil and I had like two downwind runs. I finally got it. I was super I was pretty good on a foil because I'd been racing with the kites and I had a lot of time on foil.

Daniel Paronetto (07:33)
I

you

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (07:56)
But it still, took me a while. Still with 110 litre board, it still took me four sessions to get up and be able to go upwind and do a jibe. Which some people would assume is fast, but with the amount of time I've had on the water under a sail, I was like, this sport is impossible. Three sessions in.

Daniel Paronetto (08:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, winging was hard. Winging was hard. And it is,

I think we just have to be patient with foiling. Because you also like, you do a jive and then you're like, I learned it. But for it to become a consistent thing that you're hitting and getting right all the time takes a little while.

Kite Puerto Rico (08:33)
Yeah. And at the same time, I was learning how to prone foil. yeah, so I learned how to prone. That took me a long time because I've never surfed before. to this day, I still haven't stepped foot on a surfboard. It's all been on a foil. Yeah. So I learned how to surf on a foil. Yeah. So learning how to read the waves and, you know, I kite surfed a little bit. So I understand how the

Daniel Paronetto (08:38)
Yeah, was gonna ask you prone as well.

Really?

That would have been super hard.

Mmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (09:02)
the wave works, but I mean, you don't really understand a wave until you're surfing, you know, and you're out there on your own in the whitewash, you know, standing up and trying to read what's going on, especially when you're trying to do it on a foil, because there's so many different angles you can take. I mean, I don't know if it's easier. Maybe it's easier to ride a wave on a foil because you've got so many options, right?

Daniel Paronetto (09:27)
just standing on it. I think the pop-up for me was something that took so long, And still today, like, I don't practice it enough, so I'm rusty, like super rusty on it. But I love it.

Kite Puerto Rico (09:37)
Yeah, so

I practice all the disciplines, right? So now we foil drive, and then we tow a lot. We prone, we wing, parawing, downwind sup. So just any area that you can foil, mean, just pick a day. Pick your vessel and do it. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (09:47)
Mm-hmm.

that. The

the the evolution when you when you started going into sup down winding and just stuff whiling how was that was that the hardest of them all? Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (10:10)
Oh, 100%. I mean,

everyone will say it. Yeah, I have no SUP background. So I just bought what I could. I bought an AXIS 8 foot, 110 liter, I think it was, and put a giant North High aspect on it and just hammered it out. Quite a bit, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (10:25)
That's a good one to start.

How much swearing was involved in that process?

Kite Puerto Rico (10:38)
I don't get easily frustrated unless I'm really good at something and I know that I should be performing better. When I'm learning something, typically I'm like, you know what, this is just how it is. This is just how it is, right? But with the downwinding, yeah, there was definitely a lot of swearing going on. It was definitely frustrating. coming from kiting, any, like you throw a kite up in the air, any kite.

will work if it's flying you know what the problem is you just don't have enough power you know your boards too small you're you know you're holding too much power you're overpowered with foiling and you could just you could pick the wrong tail you know you could you could you could put it like one inch too far forward and you just you ruin a session right so I'm I'm not very particular about my gear and what I ride I know what feels good and I know what I like but I'll just

Daniel Paronetto (11:07)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the wrong shim even, you know.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (11:34)
I'll just go out and be, okay, whatever, I'm riding this, this is what's in my car, and I'll take whatever. With downwinding, it's made me a lot more specific on what kind of gear I want to ride because I've had so many bad sessions downwinding that I know it was, for sure it was me, but the equipment had a huge play in how I was performing.

Daniel Paronetto (11:53)
Yeah, matching the speed of the bumps with what you're riding is so, but it's good. It makes you a better foiler. You learn the gear better. You learn what works and you get in tune with whatever you're riding.

Kite Puerto Rico (12:06)
Yeah. So it took me probably like 35 days straight of being on the SUP board, surfing it, flat water, and then doing runs. Sometimes multiple sessions a day, trying to surf waves and surfing the waves was easy. After two days, I was like, I've got this SUP thing. You know, you're just like pop, pop, and you go, and then you go to the swell and it's just like totally different. know, it just, everything changes and it's not even the same thing.

Daniel Paronetto (12:16)
Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (12:36)
Even to this day. I mean, I haven't picked up a paddle in who knows how long, but yeah, but, but when I was, was, it was always like, okay, am I going to be able to do this? Is today my day? And then there's always, you know, you're always learning something and you know, getting your heart rate up to 195 and then trying to get on foil and then trying to stay on foil. You know, it's like, it's nerve wracking being two miles off shore. was, I didn't feel.

Daniel Paronetto (12:41)
same. We'll talk about that.

Kite Puerto Rico (13:06)
very uncomfortable and there was only like one or two sessions that I felt like, oh wow, I'm not in trouble, but I felt, you know, not at, not at ease. Yeah. And, uh, so I felt comfortable out there. I was like, I just did four mile runs, just not on foil, you know, two hours, two and a half hours, right? Just, yeah, just floating down. Um, and maybe I'd get like little success. Maybe I'd learn something and yeah, there was a lot of swearing involved in that, but

Daniel Paronetto (13:12)
Mmm.

Not on floats.

Kite Puerto Rico (13:37)
But then once you get it, it's like, my God, like that's all you want to do is downwind. Even like winging, it's a condition, right? But if there's good conditions to wing, guaranteed it's good conditions to downwind, I'm definitely going to try to get a downwind run. Even if it's going to be 35 minutes and take me four hours to shuttle back and forth and meet up with my friends and wait for them to get out of work, it's like, I definitely want to go downwind. Like it's just the most satisfying thing that you

Daniel Paronetto (13:59)
Hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (14:06)
that I've done on a foil. you just learn. I mean, if people that are listening to this don't downwind, I mean, I don't even know if you're getting what your foil can give you, you know, because you don't understand it.

Daniel Paronetto (14:19)
Yeah, it's so weird, isn't it?

having, yeah, yeah, not for sure. Like having it powered by a kite or a wing. I mean, you could have a lot of fun with it, but I think you get in tune with your gear when like you're proning, so you don't have anything powering you. But then that's a limited time on foil, which is what you were talking about. But then you go downwinding and you go for miles. You just understand what it was made for. You're like, okay, so efficient.

Kite Puerto Rico (14:45)
Yeah. Like this was a

this is what a foil was made for. Like it was made to do this is what it feels like. And yeah, when you go to like we do these events, the AWSI is a big water sports convention event where all the brands go and you test out all the gear and you're right there at the event site. It's flat. So you're like grabbing wing gear and you're going out and you know, I test out five foils. I I don't even know what I'm what I'm testing, you know, like speed, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (15:11)
Hmm

Kite Puerto Rico (15:14)
Can I get the wing tips out? Does it turn nice? But when you're powered up with a wing or you're behind a kite, you can just overpower anything. It's so hard to feel those nuances of what a foil can give you if you're not freestanding on a wave or downwinding. So, proning and downwinding is... I mean, that's the only way you can really feel what a foil can give you. Unless you're in crucial waves and you're towing or winging into it. But on flat water...

Daniel Paronetto (15:36)
Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (15:42)
I have a hard time testing foils in flat water, winging around. Every foil feels great. Just like, yeah, it goes fast. It goes straight. Yeah, it turns. I mean, it's got low end. Yeah, exactly. So when you get it onto a wave, or you're downwinding, that's when you feel what a foil can really do.

Daniel Paronetto (15:49)
Yeah. Yeah.

It hides a lot of the imperfections.

I love that man. And that, that background is so important for people to understand because I feel like everything that you've done in the past gives you a good edge on like cracking the code of a parawinging now you know, the, the kite control that you have is very intuitive. Like I've put the parawing into the hands of people who are Kytos. And I feel like within 30 seconds, they're like, okay.

I understand what's happening and you can see that they can at least keep it under control. And then people that wing or prone, like they're holding the parrowing and they're trying to turn it and I'm like, mate, just pull the rear lines. And a kiter has that instinct of like, all right, okay, this is how the bar is reacting. And I feel that is such an advantage, man, to have those sports in your toolkit to just say, okay, I could do this. And then doing jibes, right? Okay, how do you jib with a kite? How do you tack with a kite?

They're very similar moves.

Kite Puerto Rico (17:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. I wonder if it's easier for somebody to come from a winging background to parowing versus a kiting only. Because learning how to coming from kiting to learn how to wing, it's already a difficult feat. And then you go from kiting to learning how to parowing. Sure, the parowings more kite like because it's got lines and you you think it flies. It doesn't really fly. It's just sitting there. Right.

Daniel Paronetto (17:12)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (17:32)
So you know how to handle it and you're not scared of the lines, right? Lines are scary. Like you fall into it, you're gonna, like, you know, they get tangled and people are all worried about how do I, how do I untangle that? You're like, you know, right? So.

Daniel Paronetto (17:36)
Yeah.

Yeah. But even knowing

the gear, right? You coming from a kite background, you set up your gear with your eyes closed now and you know how the structure is meant to look. Sometimes I see people riding with their lines just messed up and like, dude, that's probably why it's not working. And it's like, yeah. But it's so, feel, yeah, like I feel, because for you, it feels so natural that I don't even know if you realize how much of an advantage that you have.

Kite Puerto Rico (18:00)
That's funny

Daniel Paronetto (18:14)
over people and I think in the beginning, yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (18:16)
I know. I know my friends.

I've had probably half the sessions that some people have had and they're like, damn you, Dylan. You know, like I'm riding around driving. just waiting for them to get up. And they're like, this mother f**** this guy. So a lot of people, they're like, they're telling me they're like, man, I just can't believe how you handle that thing. And it's just it's so intuitive, you know, that it's like. It doesn't feel difficult to fly.

Daniel Paronetto (18:30)
Yep.

Mmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (18:44)
Before I even saw it, I knew how to fly it. I'm like, well, that's simple.

Daniel Paronetto (18:47)
I know. And you coming from

like, did you ride two line kites back in the day?

Kite Puerto Rico (18:51)
No, no, that was before my time. I started in 20. No. Yeah. Two thousand. Eight, nine. You know, that's when I started cutting. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Yeah. So therefore, lines, had safeties. They, know, they didn't have to reel anything in. You didn't have to, know. So it was was pretty easy and safe by then. And I think from 2015 onwards is where kind of like it took a turn and it got a lot easier.

Daniel Paronetto (18:54)
Yeah, okay.

What was that like, bow kites, the first bow kites coming out or something like that? Yeah.

Mmm. Yeah, nah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (19:21)
you know, from there.

Daniel Paronetto (19:21)
Yeah,

yeah, there was a landmark in kitesurfing where it went from like just the worst gear, the worst relaunching capabilities to then being like everybody could do this now.

Kite Puerto Rico (19:33)
Yeah, yeah, super easy. How long have you been kiting?

Daniel Paronetto (19:37)
have a very similar story to you. I, I started, I didn't start kite surfing. started wakeboarding. So I had, I had like a motor sports background when I was a teenager that I would just used to race and that was my life. love that thing, but super cost prohibitive sports. So I just had to stop and then started wakeboarding with a few friends and, then got into kite surfing because I'm like, I want to boost on a wakeboard. And then I'm like, well, on a kite surf, man, you can, you know,

Kite Puerto Rico (19:45)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (20:05)
jump and have this enormous hang time. So I was really captivated by that. And like I watched, I remember space monkeys, all those like really old movies. And I'm like, my God, these guys doing these insane board offs and all that stuff. So then I got into kite surfing. I'm originally from Brazil and born and bred in Brazil and then came to Australia, moved to Australia after uni and then lived the rest of my life here. Never went back home.

And there was a really good kite surfing spot where I live. So did that. And it was an amazing experience to kite here and loved it. We were heavily into kind of unhooking and wake style. and that's, that's all we wanted to do. We were very narrow minded. were, you know, kite in probably 300 meter by 300 meter, like what we called the kiddie pool because it was flat and you're a peer and just like that. That was it.

Kite Puerto Rico (20:57)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (21:01)
And then one of my mates, he, I came to Australia in 2008, just like you. Yeah. So that's my first year here. So I learned in Brazil, had a few lessons, but never really picked it up and had it like riding consistently or anything like that. So it took me a while to become a kite surfer. had a few kite lessons. And then when I came here, that's when I think I, really got into it and like went every day.

Kite Puerto Rico (21:03)
When was this? Like when did you learn how to kite?

Daniel Paronetto (21:30)
And one of the guys that kited here on our spot, he was a professional kite surfer. You might know him, Ewan Jaspen works for Nash now. And, you know, we were always just following whatever he was doing and he was just into wake style and all that stuff. So that's what we did. And then he, one season he brought a foil and we were all laughing and like, God, that's what all the old guys in the Bay do. You know, they did the racing gear and.

Kite Puerto Rico (21:57)
You

Daniel Paronetto (22:00)
We were, um, yeah, we were making him have a hard time on it, but then, you know, eventually I think not even that season, the following one, I tried it and he taught me, which was really helpful to have a professional kitesurfer teach you how to foil. Um, and then once I started foiling, never touched the twin tip again. Yeah, it was really quick. I was like, I had probably two sessions after I started kite foiling on a twin tip and, and I was completely hooked and.

Kite Puerto Rico (22:12)
Yeah.

really? Damn.

Daniel Paronetto (22:28)
The bay just opened up from that little spot that we were in. I would get the foil and then I would explore the bay and I'm like, my God, like what are you guys doing in there? Like just locked in to this little part of the bay. And I was just exploring little bits of the bay where the bumps pick up and like trying to surf it and on a kite foil, it's not ideal, but it's still fun. Like you can still throw that thing around. And I think the time on foil made that evolution be very quick. If you're...

Kite Puerto Rico (22:36)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (22:57)
kite foiling for an hour, you're on foil for like 55 minutes, you know, it's huge. And then wing foiling came around and again, I had a very bad impression of it initially, but I got into it and loved it. And then that to me was my initiation into surfing with a foil, going downwind and doing little runs. And then obviously I...

started to get into proning. think proning still today is like this thing that is above all else. That's a little bit unattainable for me. Very similar to you. I don't have a surfing background or anything and foiling got me into surfing. I started going to the wave pool to practice pop-ups because I didn't know how to do that properly. and I still suck in proning. have shocking sessions out there, but you know, the one or two waves that you get are worth it. I still love it. and then down-winding came.

Kite Puerto Rico (23:32)
Mm.

Yeah. Do you do

you subsurf a bunch then versus proning or?

Daniel Paronetto (23:55)
I do now,

I do now because I learned how to do, uh, to do soft paddle, uh, subs, um, down winding. And that was a very similar journey to you. Like eight shit for a long time. Um, didn't know how to paddle, had to learn how to do a J stroke and even didn't even know what that was. I'm like, what is a J stroke? And, uh, dude, it's, it was such a heart and I would just throw myself and there was, there was three guys doing it here in the Bay and.

Kite Puerto Rico (24:14)
Still don't know what that is.

Daniel Paronetto (24:23)
they were kind of doing it already. So I would go into the downwinders that they were doing and I would just float for like two hours and get on foil for, you know, 50 meters and like would be stoked on it. I'm like, I can see this working. And then did that for a little while. And then the Parallel came out and then things completely changed for me.

Kite Puerto Rico (24:45)
the rest.

You have the same impression about the Parawing when it first came out? You were like, nah. I thought there was going to be a pattern here.

Daniel Paronetto (24:50)
No, no, the para wing, no.

No, look, I think I learned from my mistakes after four years or whatever it has been. Like, I think, I think for me, when I saw the pocket rocket was the first time that the pocket, sorry, the, the pocket wing was the first time that I kind of got interested in the space and my son has a little trainer kite. And then I got that just held onto the bridles and I tried to get on.

Kite Puerto Rico (25:08)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (25:19)
up on the downwind board and I could feel the power like you know the first time that you feel the power of the thing and I'm like my god there's there's maybe enough to get up but it's a double skin trainer kite fell in the water it got wet like it didn't it didn't last long but I never thought about it again and I think they were so close to cracking that code with that product and to this day I'm so amazed that like a five percent improvement on the gear which I think

You know, was the double handles to the one handle and obviously some, obviously some of the structure as well, made it completely changed for me. So when I saw the BRM for the first time, whenever it launched, September last year, I saw the videos, I watched the videos maybe like five or six times and I'm my God, they're going up wind. And I think that to me was a big one. And, and then I bought it.

Kite Puerto Rico (25:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (26:13)
within 10 minutes of watching it. I just said, I need this thing. I copped it full price, full shipping, full tax, ate it and didn't regret it at all.

Kite Puerto Rico (26:23)
Yeah,

I was in Maui the day it launched. yeah, yeah, so, so.

Daniel Paronetto (26:27)
my God. So people were in the water with it. You saw it live, like you saw it.

Kite Puerto Rico (26:36)
My my buddy, so Walt, he did have the pocket wing, right? He had one of his back in the back of the van. It was always there. And I don't know why it just didn't. It didn't click. It didn't. I'm like, yeah, that's cool. And, you know, Simbad was always on these runs with us and she's like popping out her parachute. She's got this parachute that is attached to her vest and she's just like rocketing out downwind and paddling. And this thing's fucking flying all over the place. I'm like, Jesus Christ.

Daniel Paronetto (26:52)
Mm-hmm.

I know, crazy.

That's the

end.

Kite Puerto Rico (27:05)
I

do not know how she can handle that. And it's blowing like 30, but like these Kihei runs that are on the other side, they're not on the North Coast. The Malika is a little bit more rough, but on that side, it's like dead offshore. So it's flat. So you got to paddle for a while to get out to some bumps. then eventually you see people trying to start, you know, and get up because the bumps are building and some people try too early and you get like, you know, tired. So you're like, okay, I'll paddle another 500 meters out. And then Simbad's out there just like, and like.

Daniel Paronetto (27:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (27:35)
Going out, I'm like, okay. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna try the, I'm gonna try the pocket wing, you know? So I took my downwind board, I took my paddle with the camera on it, right? So I'm sitting, kneeling on my paddle so my camera's out and I'm like, we taped the two handles together, because two handles were just, like, just.

Daniel Paronetto (27:35)
That's so cool man. Such a pioneer.

Mm-hmm.

I was gonna say,

how does it feel? Like what's that feeling of a double handles?

Kite Puerto Rico (28:01)
The double handle, if you're free, I guess if you're freestanding and you're trying to go sideways, like we were just trying to go straight downwind, right? You're like this and you're like trying to go straight downwind, which is just not a good idea. You just don't have any resistance. And now we know that from trying to parrowing, you know, every day and watching people learning, right? So I was just trying to go straight downwind and popping this thing, this thing's flying all over the place. It's like catching on my camera, like just, you know, parrowing and it...

Daniel Paronetto (28:12)
Yeah. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

You

Mayhem.

Kite Puerto Rico (28:31)
It'll snag on, you you got an earring, it'll snag on it 100%. You know, like whatever those lines can snag on, they will. So it was just a bad idea. so I eventually packed it up. I put it away and I paddled up and went on my run. And then that evening, that's when like the BRM launched, or it was in the morning or something. And I looked at it and it was my last two days in Maui. And I was like, holy shit.

Daniel Paronetto (28:35)
Yeah.

They will.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (29:02)
I'm like, that's the thing, that's it. And the upwind ability of it, watching them ride around, it didn't captivate me as much. I was just like, dude, that's epic for downwinding, right? That's what it's for. Pop it up, get out, have a little bit more control, pack it away and go. it just, I don't know, maybe it's the way that they launched it, the video, maybe it was the way that they were riding it. just looked like you wanted to do that.

Daniel Paronetto (29:04)
That's it. That's it. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It looked easy.

It was just so easy.

Kite Puerto Rico (29:32)
Yeah, the pocket wing I just never,

maybe it's because I didn't see a marketing video that was done right or maybe they were flying it differently or whatever it was, it just never, you know, I should have seen it earlier. Everyone else should have seen it earlier, right?

Daniel Paronetto (29:37)
Mmm.

Yeah, I know. And yeah,

exactly. The whole market should have seen it early. All the brands should have seen that and said, my God, it's just like a little increment from that and we're there. Now hats off to Greg for that one. He was such a visionary. Well, all of them really.

Kite Puerto Rico (29:50)
Yeah.

Yeah. Super cool.

So I went to the beach because I know that's where he rings wings around. I went there and I drove my van. just sat there and I'm like, do know Greg? Do know Greg? you know Greg? I emailed him like, where's Greg? I'm like, I want to try this thing.

Daniel Paronetto (30:16)
I love that. Stalker.

Kite Puerto Rico (30:22)
I mean, little did I know he was getting thousands of orders or hundreds, you know, at least in the first couple of weeks. So he's like, there's like this kid that wants to demo my BRM is like, dude, just buy it online, you know, like, and, know, if, I can't sell something in my shop and it's not something that I can present to my clients, I'm a little bit apprehensive of buying it. So when it first came out, it wasn't like, here's my money. I know I wanted to do it. And I was like,

Daniel Paronetto (30:26)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (30:53)
you know, but I can't sell it in my shop and are they going to be accessible? Is it going to be a thing? You know, am going to spend my my money and my time invested into this for my shop and for what I'm doing in the future? Right. So it didn't it didn't like hit me right then and there that it's definitely something I have to get into. And it's going to be something in my future and for the shop. So I didn't buy one and I did fly one on the beach a little bit and then.

Daniel Paronetto (30:58)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (31:21)
We went to Kihei and there was six guys that had them. I'm like, where'd you get those? like, dude, you just buy them online. I'm like, damn it, I know. I should have done that too. Yeah, so we watched them all take off. And I mean, they just like pop up. They were going downwind. They packed it away and away they went. And they were just on their downwind boards. Right? So it's like, and then, you you start to wonder and you're like, well, what's the point? Right? I've got this bag. Like, what if it falls?

Daniel Paronetto (31:28)
You're like, fuck! But I kind of want to try one, you know?

Mmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (31:50)
you know, all these things run through your head, which it always does. Like all of these questions always run through my head. And then, you know, when you start to see people using it with smaller boards and you can use a smaller foil and then you start to see them, you know, getting out from places that you can't paddle out from and, you know, all those things, you're like, I got to do it. But that so that day that the BRM launched the parawing, I ordered a peak, a fly surfer peak.

Daniel Paronetto (31:52)
So many questions, yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

the fly surfer,

Kite Puerto Rico (32:18)
Yeah,

so I've got an account with them. I'm like, oh, I'm just going to buy a peak. It's cheaper. Yeah, no bar. Just bought it. And it arrived. And when I got home, I just chopped off all the bridles. Like had a carbon bar that I drilled holes into and vertically, you know, connected all the A's to B's and tied it up and made them different lengths. And it worked. You know, it would fly. I've got a video of me doing it. And I went out on my downwind board and I was able to get up and it would go upwind.

Daniel Paronetto (32:29)
Nice.

Yep.

Nice.

Yep.

Kite Puerto Rico (32:47)
really well and then to like put it away was just a disaster and then I had like a couple bad sessions and I just like threw it in the bin. I was like no I'm like I'm gonna buy a real parawing. This is this is just not worth it.

Daniel Paronetto (32:48)
I'm working. Yeah.

Yeah, I think for the amount of the amount of time there's a guy here that

I'm actually going to post a video. We've been mucking around with the peak as well to the point where we cut the canopy. Take, we took some panels off so, we wouldn't have, you know, that kind of C-shaped kite, that it really needs a little bit less canvas there. And now it's like a 1.8 little square and it's working so well. That thing now we're every day we go to the beach and tweak it, but.

Kite Puerto Rico (33:10)
really?

Daniel Paronetto (33:25)
To your point, like the amount of effort that you put into it, you might as well just get something.

Kite Puerto Rico (33:30)
Yeah, but it was only BRM, right? So you're like, oh, well, if this guy did it, this thing's the same, right? And then you realize very quickly that they're not all the same. And they're all a little bit different. And the peak is just, you know, it's just way too high aspect. You know, it just flies way too far in the window. You've just got no load on it. You know, if you're up and getting up and going and you're going upwind, it's great.

Daniel Paronetto (33:32)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (33:54)
You know, it works great, but if you want to pack it up or you want any load or power, you just need too big of a wing for it to make sense, right?

Daniel Paronetto (33:55)
Mm-hmm.

And what was your first session on the, your first session was obviously on this peak, but then you got a BRM eventually or how did that go?

Kite Puerto Rico (34:12)
No, I no I never ordered a BRM. I think it was pretty like maybe it was a month and a half after I was home and then we had the AWS I event. So I went to AWS I and I was talking to North. I'm like hey guys, where's your parawing? You know the moment BRM came out of my K. This is like I think this is going to be a thing. We should look into it and they're like you know we have this in the in our in our garage. We've been working on it for.

Daniel Paronetto (34:16)
Mm-hmm.

yep.

Mm.

Kite Puerto Rico (34:42)
months, it wasn't really a para wing. Essentially what North was designing was a toe kite. So it was like same thing. It was very similar. It was very low aspect. It was a horizontal bar and you'd like take it out of your out of this backpack that they designed for it. You take it out and you shoot it up and you drag yourself back to shore in case your wing broke in half in case something happened. was essentially they were just

Daniel Paronetto (34:52)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Okay.

Hmm, safety thing?

Kite Puerto Rico (35:11)
Yeah, they were designing a safety device and it was called the Tokite and it was to you could get up on foil on it if you wanted to, but it really wasn't that wasn't their design aspect. It was more like a safety device that you could have in your backpack. It's super low profile. Shoot it up and drag yourself back to shore if you needed to kind of thing. And it wasn't I don't know if they were serious about it or or what, but they they were designing it and it was in the back of their mind that this was going to maybe be something that they could use like a little.

Daniel Paronetto (35:41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (35:41)
parachute.

So when I got to AWSI, one of the designers, a couple of designers had it. And so I went straight to them. like, hey, that's for me. I think you guys brought that for me. And they gave it to me. They're like, well, no one else is going to ride it. And so I just shot that up. And I did a couple runs in Hood River with it and had a horizontal bar. And I was like, well, it worked. But I was like,

Daniel Paronetto (35:54)
Gimme that.

Yeah.

amazing.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (36:10)
And there was some tension issues with the bridles and stuff that we tweaked. And I talked to the designers on you we were on FaceTime trying to figure out how to tweak it to see what was wrong with it or how we could improve it. And, you know, that's how North was really early on with it because they already had something designed. They already had the shoot. They already had everything. They just had to tweak all of the bridles and then change up the design aspect a little bit and make the leading edge a little bit, you know.

Daniel Paronetto (36:17)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

How cool.

Mm-hmm

Kite Puerto Rico (36:39)
pocketed a little bit more and a little bit more beefy. And there was a lot of different

Daniel Paronetto (36:39)
beefier. Yeah

Kite Puerto Rico (36:43)
designs that they went through, but it was, was nice that right away they had something that I could use and then directly give feedback and be like, cool. This is, moving forward with this, you know? Yeah. So I did that. And then my buddy Walt had it. had every size. had like a, a six, a five, a four, a three, a two and a one. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Walt is yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (36:53)
How cool,

He went nuts and just got it all. Nice. I like you, Walt. My kind of guy.

Kite Puerto Rico (37:09)
He's always all in. So now he's got all the flows, you know, and he's always all in. He, mean, he was the one with the pocket wing. Like he, he was like, well, fuck it. And he's like, he bought it, never used it. But he's like, maybe this is something. and I don't, I think he used it a couple of times in hood because it's hood's a little bit of a different scenario. It's pretty, pretty easy there. Yeah. Yeah. So he used it a couple of times and, and then he sold it eventually when he got the BRM site.

Daniel Paronetto (37:13)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

can make anything work there, I think. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (37:39)
I mean, there's no way I'm going to use that, right? And it was strictly for down-winding, right? There was no talk about going upwind or using it instead of a wing, right? It was like, we're like, nah, no way. No way we're going to use this instead of a wing. Like, you know, that was our first thought. Because me and Walt, I mean, we talk all the time on the phone. He's essentially my co-host, you know, of the podcast. So we're always like,

Daniel Paronetto (37:40)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

What are we doing? What is, yeah, yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (38:07)
You know, what are we doing? What's going to

be the future? And it's awesome because you don't know.

Daniel Paronetto (38:12)
You don't know, but it's so cool to be able to bounce some ideas with someone because I'm sure

he has his own vision of where things go and then you're like, I didn't think about that.

Kite Puerto Rico (38:21)
Yeah, I mean he

foils way more than I do, that guy.

Daniel Paronetto (38:25)
He has a similar background like kite foiler, winger kind of vibe.

Kite Puerto Rico (38:28)
Yeah,

he's he's he's not he wasn't into it as early so he was like a mediocre kiter and Then he got into kite foiling and then when winging came out. He'd never touched a kite again it was just straight wing foiling and then Proning a little bit. He never like totally dialed it in and spent as much time as me and Arlen did But the winging yeah, he was all in and then now foil drive came out and I mean

Daniel Paronetto (38:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, okay. All in.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Kite Puerto Rico (38:57)
You're proning with a power source, know, that's nothing better than that. Towing, he bought a jet ski, lots of foiling. And it's just that's all he does. And he went through all the brands I did. know, my shop's evolution of foil brands is Walt's and my evolution of foil brands and what we went through and what we're riding now is because of discovery, right? And what we essentially want to ride, which is really cool to have him by my side and testing and...

Daniel Paronetto (39:00)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That's so cool.

Kite Puerto Rico (39:26)
and giving his feedback, you know? So if Walt wants to ride it, then I definitely want to ride it and want to sell it because he's pretty particular. It's not like he's better than me at foiling, but he just, he's just so, I don't know, he's just, that's all he wants to do all the time. It's just foil, foil, foil, and I wish I had that much time.

Daniel Paronetto (39:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a very addictive man. Once you get it, I think, especially when you get into downwinding, that kind of mind state that you're in, when you're downwinding and being on foil for so long and in a critical kind of way where you don't want to come down. It's just so cool. And then when you master that and coming down is not an issue anymore. And you start turning and you start generating speed from the waves and trying not to pump. saw that video the other day that you posted about not pumping.

Kite Puerto Rico (40:14)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (40:16)
And I love that. love going out and say, I'm going to come down and I'm not going to pump. And how do I work out a way to keep speed? And I think the parawinging helped me so much with that. Cause I didn't have a paddle, the pump, pump paddle out of a hole and everything. So, with the parawing think I also didn't care if I fell because I knew I was going to get up with the paddle and a small foil. was like, this might take me 20 minutes, you know? And if I had a few goes at a

Kite Puerto Rico (40:41)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (40:45)
A flat like a at paddle ups. might not even paddle the thing up anymore because I'm cooked, you know? so that kind of really changed the game for me and how I approach a down winder today. I see guys really keen on acing runs and things like that. don't care if I ace a run anymore. Like if you do that a few times, cool. but now I'm really trying to perfect my turns and focusing on turns and, and just. Like the other day I just went out and I was carving.

the nine 80 S from code that I just write the S series. love them. And I wanted to see how sharp I could turn. Cause I had a extra small fuse on and I was literally just turning and falling on my butt. Cause I wanted to see the radius of the turn and I would never have done that on the paddle and paddle up 10 times consecutively. So just made it really, really good. In hood river. I'm going to hood river. I bought my ticket yesterday, man.

Kite Puerto Rico (41:37)
Yeah, in Hood River you would.

really?

Daniel Paronetto (41:44)
First

time, yeah, first time I'm going to hood. Never been like two years that I've been like, this is the year and for whatever reason couldn't make it. And yeah, I'm going down on the 14th to the 31st of July and I'm fraught.

Kite Puerto Rico (41:58)
cool.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good time. Walt, yeah, Walt will be down there. He rented a house, I think, for a whole year starting this summer. He's gonna make it home base. It just doesn't get much better than that for downwinding and pair winging. It's just insane. Yeah, so.

Daniel Paronetto (42:04)
Yeah, you've been there a couple of times.

Amazing.

Hmm. What do you guys

ride there? Like what's the, in terms of foil, do you change a little bit your foil size because it's fresh water and just weird conditions or not really?

Kite Puerto Rico (42:31)
No,

you don't need to be on anything very fast. You don't need to be on a downwind foil. So essentially, if you're on the S, you're on a surf foil. That's pretty much what you want to be on. You can be on a small surf foil and just rip the crap out of these waves. It depends where you are in the river. There are different bends that get a little bit flatter, and the bumps are

Daniel Paronetto (42:36)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (42:57)
you smaller so you might have to work but then again now if you're you know if you're on a pair when you could link different sections together that you know are going to be flat so there's there's places like they're like this is a good run because this is where it's all stacked up and then from here it gets a little bit flat but then here it stacks up again right there's different sections in the river where the current is and I wouldn't know I wouldn't know what how to what to say or or I wouldn't know how to tell you but the locals must know.

Daniel Paronetto (43:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. I'm

just curious to know if you like, do we need even need to go downwinding on the parawing there? Or could you just hit one of those little areas where it's picking up and just do upwind and downwind because the current's going the other way. I'm in my head, like going upwind would be a little bit easier there.

Kite Puerto Rico (43:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I I haven't experienced it because I only did a couple, you know, maybe four parawing runs when I was there in September. And then. Yeah, I haven't been back, so I haven't thought about what my logistics would look like. But over there, man, it's just the shuttling is so easy. Like you don't even you don't even want to waste your energy going back up when on a parawing, you just.

Daniel Paronetto (43:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (44:12)
get out, you jump in a car that's running up. I guess it depends on the season or how many people are there, but if it's a good day, there's 15, 20 people or more down-winding and there's just cars going up and down. The road is here and the river is here. It's a straight line. You don't have to do these long logistics. You drop off, you get in the river. You get out of the river, you get in. You're like, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (44:23)
Yeah, up and down. Yeah.

You probably need a break after going downwind to those

freaking awesome bumps.

Kite Puerto Rico (44:42)
Yeah, so

yeah, I guess if you're if you're pair winging you can you can ride it up wind I guess yeah, I mean you guess you can go to like the hatchery and swell city right around there and just go up and you know, try to Surf it as long as you want all the way down. It's probably I don't know Six seven minutes of downwinding You know, and then you bring back up and do it again It's definitely definitely something

Daniel Paronetto (44:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to try it all.

Yeah. I just can't wait to get there now. So, so tell us a little bit about what you have in the background there. want to, you, you probably used like, basically most of the, pair wings out there today and have a lot of experience in writing different pair wings and how they feel.

Kite Puerto Rico (45:11)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's a fun spot for sure.

Yeah, yeah,

I, you know, I haven't had a ton of parowing sessions. I mean, I'm just as addicted to everybody else and we haven't had the best season here for wind. So it's been a little bit tough to to get out in the right times and then have the wings at the right time. it's, you know, waiting for parowings that sometimes didn't have them available. So it's it's been it's been difficult to be able to use them.

Daniel Paronetto (45:38)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (46:01)
often as I want to I Have tried, you know, this is the I've got the north over here. I've got the flow the nsis the BRM and then a wave star from born and The only one that I haven't used is I actually haven't even used the nsis. I haven't even had to try I haven't even got the chance to try it. It's a three meter We haven't had that much wind So I might in Puerto Rico, I've probably

Daniel Paronetto (46:13)
Mm-hmm.

really? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (46:30)
Down-winding, I've done four down-winders with the parawing and then winging it around and like testing them out in the bay. Maybe another 10, you know? And that's about the extent of my para-winging to be honest. And yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (46:42)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You got it quick though, man. Like

your progression's been quick. But you do feel, well, the North is not out yet, right? Are they coming out with it soon or?

Kite Puerto Rico (46:59)
Yeah, so it should be, I mean, they're on their way. So they should be hitting stores April, first week of April, second week, I'd hope. Kind of like.

Daniel Paronetto (47:07)
Mm-hmm.

And I've seen you

out with it for a while. How does that one feel?

Kite Puerto Rico (47:15)
Yeah, so maybe maybe I have done more sessions. I feel like I haven't done that many because I just I want to be out there every day. So maybe it's been 50, but it feels like I've only been out there 10 times. So maybe I have been out more, but it feels like I haven't really got the chance to really explore the parawing yet because I I want to I just haven't had as much time as I want to on them. The north, I had the early it was like one of their second

Daniel Paronetto (47:20)
You just want to be out more.

Okay.

Kite Puerto Rico (47:45)
second or third iterations of it and I had it. And I spent some time on it, winging it around, I did a downwinder on it. And there was something with the bridles on one of the edges, they were a little bit too short, so they sent me new bridles and the moment that the new bridles arrived for their new configuration to just make it just 3 % better, I lost it.

Daniel Paronetto (48:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dude, what was that? Who told me that? think Dave West told me that and I'm like, nah, you can't lose a pairling. Like how?

Kite Puerto Rico (48:19)
You can lose

a parawing. Yeah. So I was I was on the south side and we were we were just sending downwind runs. It's a short run. And I was just messing around, you know, like I was trying to wing up because these guys were learning how to pair wings. I was like, OK, I'll go I'll do a downwind or I'll pop it up and I'll go up when back to them and like downwind again and go up. And I was just doing a bunch of just crap, silly things. And I was falling all over the place and I was just like yard sale.

Daniel Paronetto (48:22)
that happen.

Kite Puerto Rico (48:49)
So on one of them, you know, I just I fell. came over. I almost landed on my foil. It was like a taco kind of situation and a turn. And I let go of the parawing and my hat came off my boards, you know, somewhere else. I like swim back to my board. get on it. I swim back up wind to get my hat. I put it on and I turn around. I'm sitting on my board and I look and my pair wings just like just taking off. I'm like, what the fuck? No, just like.

Daniel Paronetto (49:17)
flying like in the air.

Kite Puerto Rico (49:19)
In the water, the leading edge was just propped up like this into the wind. Just all the sails were just propped up and all the lines in the bar were just sitting on the trailing edge on the back of the wing. So it was just like it was just propped like this and it was just like it was just going and I was like, my God. So I got on my board. was a 70 litre little mid length and I just paddled as fast as I could and it felt like hours. It was probably five minutes.

Daniel Paronetto (49:24)
Yeah, yeah,

so it's like as if someone was holding it.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (49:47)
You know, and I just chased it and I was like, and I was like getting a little bit closer and a little bit closer, but it just didn't feel like I was getting close enough. I just, there was no way I could grab it. So I'm like, man. I'm like, I'm just running out of energy here. don't know how much longer I can swim like this. So, so I sat on my board to give myself a break and it just, just kept on going. And I had one of my instructors who was down there doing winging downwinds and he's just winging around and I'm just like, Hey.

Daniel Paronetto (49:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dude, get

the...

Kite Puerto Rico (50:16)
Hello, you're the only one that can help me. Everyone else is on downwind boards and pair wings and he's just winging around and he's downwind. He's winging and he like goes past me and then he wings up when I'm like, fuck, I'm like, bro. So I'm like, OK, well, so I start swimming again and then I am like not getting closer. So I look and he's, you know, winging to the beach and I'm waving at him. He gets to the beach. He deflates his wing and I see him walk out. I'm like, fuck. I'm like, I was like, God damn it. So and then.

Daniel Paronetto (50:30)
Dude.

You're like...

So you can

lose a pair of wings.

Kite Puerto Rico (50:46)
Yeah, for sure. And I'm sure there's other stories out there of people getting into waves and them sinking and getting taken off. But no. And then it was kind of like a bay, you know, where we were. And the Parawing was shooting towards the end of it, like to a point. They're like, fuck it. So I just swam. was like I was a mile offshore. So I swam back into the beach, dropped my board and ran down the beach. And it's that.

Daniel Paronetto (50:53)
I thought it was in a way a situation with you. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (51:15)
the end of that little bay, it's surrounded by a reef and on the inside it's all shallow grass. It's like knee deep. It's a beautiful kite spot. It's like just butter flat. All the waves stop at the reef. And I'm like, did it shoot past it? Did it come into the, like, I just didn't know where it was. And I was trying to figure out where I was. and I just definitely just came in to right where the reef is and just the waves just munched it up and it just never to be seen again. So.

Daniel Paronetto (51:18)
Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (51:43)
I drove home and in the next morning I went back. I'm like, you know what? I didn't give it enough of a look, right? So I went back. It's an hour and a half drive. So I drove back to the South side and I got booties on and I just like walked around the reef, you know, for five miles, like up and down. And I was like, there's just no way. There's just nowhere. Yep.

Daniel Paronetto (51:46)
Yeah.

dude.

Well there you go. There you go. Maybe,

yeah, I never wear a leash on my parawing. I hate it. Yeah, I think so. I think that was a freak. Like the way it held its shape. I mean, the chances of that happening, Dylan, really, mean, come on.

Kite Puerto Rico (52:08)
I still wouldn't. You know?

Very slim,

yeah. So I would just say, you know, next... Because, I fell hundreds of times, you know? Like, not a big deal, it just sits there. If anything, it's gonna slowly start sinking, it's not gonna get away from you. So now I know that when I fall, just grab the parawing first and then gather up your, you know, your things, your phone wallet keys. First the parawing.

Daniel Paronetto (52:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I am yeah, I I'm I don't know people ask me about safety and what to do with the pairing I'm a big advocate to like if anything happens I don't want to be attached to it at all like not not that it would I mean It's so if something happens to the pairing you're probably too close to whatever you're you're messed up in anyway But it's not like a kite that you have, know 24 meter lines that you could snag on a tree or something So I just don't have a leash like you I like to take all the tangle

Kite Puerto Rico (52:57)
No.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (53:17)
hazards out of the way. I have, I never hook in, I stopped hooking in as well. Like I don't have a little harness hook cause that as well gets hooked onto the lines. No coil leash, the coil leash is just a mess with the parawing. All these little things and even the harness line that you have on the bar, like when you're stowing it or stuff like that, it's just another thing that's going to get tangled on those bridles very easily.

Kite Puerto Rico (53:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, there's there's so many little tidbits of information and tips and tricks and to go through them all. It's. And we're all still learning, right? Like and yeah, you can. You can have your list and then you can be very specific, right? Of like your taste and what you want to do and how you want to use it and what equipment you want to use to minimize, you know, tangling or whatever.

Daniel Paronetto (53:51)
Mm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (54:15)
But essentially, if anybody's, you know, got the chance to just grab a parawing, don't worry if you have a coiled leash, just go out and do it. You know, like I had someone contact me the other day. He's like, hey, man, I want to get a parawing. But everyone around me says I 100 percent need a downwind board or a midi or I'm not going to be able to do it. And I'm like, there's I mean, there's no way. I mean, your soap bar, that's 110 litres. It'll work. It's not it is not optimal.

Daniel Paronetto (54:34)
No.

Hmm dude that would get yeah

Kite Puerto Rico (54:42)
That's 100 % true, and I would not stick with that if you're gonna be a para winger, but man, go ahead. I mean, I think that's better than doing it on a downwind board almost, you know?

Daniel Paronetto (54:46)
You'll experience it though, it'll get you up, yeah.

Yeah, no, hundred

percent. I think any winger, like if you own a wing board, whatever leaderage it is, like just chuck on your biggest foil and get a comparable size parawing and start having a crack. Get a demo, like maybe start on a longer board from a shop. Like I'm sure you have demos out there. Like you can do your first few session on that. And then once you kind of understand, you know, the hand handling and just.

Kite Puerto Rico (55:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (55:20)
water

relaunch and just how to understand your quiver then start on your gear. And I feel like that's one of the biggest things that's gonna happen to wingers. Everybody's like, I don't wanna buy a downwind board. I don't wanna buy a paddle. I don't wanna have to learn all that stuff. Cause that's like a easy, a six month journey at least. And they always complain about just going out, having a session versus the shuttling, all that stuff that wingers like to complain about. And with the parawing, dude.

Kite Puerto Rico (55:38)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (55:50)
Grab it, use the same gear that you're on, chuck on your biggest foil, and you'll start to understand how the thing works.

Kite Puerto Rico (55:57)
Yeah, it's not that complicated. People make it sound a lot more complicated than it is, but you just got to go out and have sessions. Everything's hard. If you want to learn how to downwind, like with a paddle, that's hard. know, pair winging is not hard, but you just have to understand the risk of everything, right? You have to understand the risk and reward and how hard it is, but how rewarding it can be, right? It's all the same.

Daniel Paronetto (56:01)
Mm.

Yeah. And patience, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (56:26)
with all these sports.

Daniel Paronetto (56:29)
Do want to talk about these pair wings or do you want to stay a little neutral on them? I'm not sure if you even want to talk about them.

Kite Puerto Rico (56:32)
Yeah, sure. No.

You know, it's there are some that are better than others, and then it's if I've only had, you know, three sessions on the the born kite and five on this and, you know, maybe six on the flow and the north, I've probably spent the most time on testing through different iterations and and trying to get footage and stuff with it now. As I'm I'm quite involved with North just because I'm

Daniel Paronetto (56:52)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (57:01)
I sell in my shop and I love the brand and the people behind it, so I want their stuff to be as good as it can be. And I'm just very enthusiastic and I just like to see if I can help them in any way, know, with their downwind foils, their parawing. just, yeah, throw it to me. I'll give you advice. I'll, you know, show you what's good, what's bad. And I try to be, you know, as honest as possible, right, with them especially. The, you know...

Daniel Paronetto (57:20)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (57:30)
I was really excited to get the Flow because looking at it and how it performs and everyone's going to be a little bit different in how they want to use the Parawing and their skill level, right? So here, let's say I had six people. So I want to compare the Flow and the North, you know? So they're both different. The Flow, it's hard to say, it's probably my favorite to date.

Like it's just for me and my ability and going up wind and tacking it, I like it and how it performs. But it's low end isn't amazing for us here in Puerto Rico. So we need to use a bigger parawing. So if I had like six people and they're beginners or they're a little bit more experienced and I hand them the flow and then the north, the north is more, it's easier to get up on foil.

Daniel Paronetto (58:23)
Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (58:27)
It's more powerful, it's grunty, it's easier to pack away, the lines are a little bit shorter. So it it kind of feels like a truck. Like the, the four, the four two that I have here, it pulls just as much as the six meter BRM. It's insane. So then, you know, taking out the four two compared to the four two flow. I mean, that North thing will just rip my arms off at one point, you know, trying to go up wind. You're like holding it as hard as you can on the, on the leading edge.

Daniel Paronetto (58:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Mmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (58:56)
It gets a little bit of like deformation. kind of like, it kind of, leading edge itself buckles. It doesn't fold in half, but it gets like a little bit too much pressure when you're trying to push it too hard upwind. So gets a little bit deformed in the leading edge and then it starts to lean back into the window. So you start to lose your upwind ability and it kind of shoots a little bit. So you got to lean off of it, veer off and you have to be very careful of how much pressure and how much load you put on it.

Daniel Paronetto (59:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Kite Puerto Rico (59:24)
So it goes upwind really well and it's powerful, it's easy to get up. And so for downwinders, if I'm just going to go downwind, I'm going to go out. If I need a little bit of angle, it's great. Then I'll take the north because it's so easy to pack up. It's got no battens in it. It's more powerful. So I know I'm going to get up on it. Right?

Daniel Paronetto (59:31)
Hmm.

On the leading edge,

there's no those little plastic bits. Yeah. That's nice.

Kite Puerto Rico (59:43)
No, no, nothing. So it's unstructured, which is really

nice. It's just easy to use. But it's a little bit more low aspect. It's not going upwind as well. But then you get on the flow and you give it to somebody that doesn't know how to handle it, it is a little bit more difficult. I don't know what it is. just doesn't have this low end grunt. There's just not much.

Daniel Paronetto (1:00:03)
Hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:00:10)
the middle of the canopy, I don't feel like it's giving me much grunt and power. You can pull on it, which is nice. And once you're up on foil, it's just dreamy. The way that you can depower it and how much you can put it upwind. mean, personal preference, for me, the flow right now, for the amount of time that I've had on these pair of wings is, I mean, takes the cake for me and how I want to use it.

Daniel Paronetto (1:00:14)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you could pump a little more.

Yeah, it's an easy one to find.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:00:39)
Because I do want to, like, when I go out to wing here, my house is three blocks from the beach. I have everything in my van. I, you know, bought a mama van and I just put it all in there. And so when I want to go foiling, I just grab my mid length, I grab a foil, put a parawing on my backpack, you know, I put two of them just in case. I don't know how the wind's going to be. So I put like a four, two north and then a four, two flow. And I'm like, OK, cool.

Daniel Paronetto (1:00:47)
Mm-hmm.

How good is that? Yeah, same.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:01:08)
and I go to the beach and I just walk into the water with it on my back, paddle out a little bit and I just like pull it out, pop it up and it just feels so simple and easy. I know, even all of that is not that difficult. We start to get lazy. But it's just an added thing.

Daniel Paronetto (1:01:19)
It's so minimal. It's so minimal. There's no pumping, no lines to...

It's not that difficult, but it's kind of like the feeling you have when you go surfing. It's an added thing

and like the simplicity of surfing where you just go out, wax your board and you're going out. And then speaking from a surfer here, you know what mean? Like that simplicity is so cool and there's something to it that makes the sport a little bit more enjoyable. I don't care, man. I'm used to, you know, setting up my kite and putting my lines out. So it's not a thing, but when I started using the parawing, I was like,

missing something like is that all this is all I need right yeah no bar no nothing it's all attached already to go and our spot here so we have a lot of cross on wind so I also don't walk into the water with it but offshore or cross cross winds would be fine doing that and then yeah a little paddle boom it's up and I just find it so minimal I love it that's really cool man I think that's a

Kite Puerto Rico (1:02:11)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:02:23)
That's a really good kind of overview on those wings. And I think what you said there is really important. Like how are you going to use it? And the intent of what you're going to use it for is really important. I haven't tried the North. I'm really keen to try it once it comes out. I think it's going to be an awesome wing as well. Like we have the ozone that just came out as well. That looks very similar to the, to the flow and the characteristics of it looks very similar to the flow, both parawinging, paragliding company. So I think there's going to be that DNA of a paraglider in them.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:02:46)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:02:53)
But I feel the BRM for what I've experienced is still the best one to pack down. There's something about that material, like the silkiness, it's not like a kite crispy feel. It's a different feel. And I feel that material's so nice to pack down.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:02:59)
Yeah.

I just,

yeah, I think it probably just doesn't have that, this like waxy water repellent coating on it. So doesn't like slip out of your hands. It kind of feels like I used to skydive back in the day. When you get a brand new parachute and you try to pack it up, like, you know, it's like popping out all over the place. It feels like when it comes out of the bag, it almost feels like a used parachute. Like it's already been kind of worn in. Doesn't have this like repelling

Daniel Paronetto (1:03:15)
Mmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:03:40)
Aspect to it so it's not slippery and yeah, I don't know what it is. Maybe maybe they don't code it with something or the material is There's yeah

Daniel Paronetto (1:03:41)
Yeah, the crispiness.

I think it's a different material.

I know the Flow uses paragliding stuff, because obviously they have access to all that material. I'm not sure what the Ozone is going to come out like, but I think it's a different brand of canvas.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:04:05)
Yeah,

yeah, all of all of these things are like super slippery.

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:11)
Yeah. Yeah. The enses, all

of the other ones are very kite-like, aren't they? Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:04:15)
Yeah, and this one

has pretty thick battens in it. The N-SYS.

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:18)
Yeah, I

feel like, um, and I've written the, the three, uh, on the, on the, middle there. the flow of the insus and the VRM. And I feel like I'm not sure about longevity yet. It's very hard to tell what's going to last versus what's not going to last. But if you're using the, the parawing just to do downwinders and you're not someone who's going to be mowing the lawn or doing tax or doing like exploring different things.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:04:45)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:04:46)
I feel like they've overcooked how they've done it. Like I would go to a super thin material, minimize the bridles in there and just do something that would, you're gonna use it for 5 % of your session.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:04:59)
Yeah, so, you know, this conversation comes up when we're trying to launch this and we're getting this North thing ready, right? At one point, it wasn't going upwind very well. And it was kind of like a reach. And we're like, well, you know, I'm like, they're like, is this good enough? Like, people are going to use it to go downwind. It's easy to pack. It's good. I'm like, I'm worried that if you launch something into the market,

Daniel Paronetto (1:05:07)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:05:28)
that is trying to be so competitive, you might lose some people on your design aspect. Everyone, you're like, cool, it's for this, or it's for this. If it doesn't go up when just a little bit, and just have a little bit more of a competitive edge, I was like, you might lose some people that are looking to possibly do it in the future. And then when our V2 comes out that we're working on, that's going to be

Daniel Paronetto (1:05:34)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:05:57)
you know, way better because we have time. I you got to like right now is the time to get these people in the market. Like I've got people bagging me for pair of wings. You know, I've got I've got flows on order. I've got Ozone's on order. I've got the North ones. I mean, I am going to be overstocked, you know, but I just can't get my hands on anything that's decent. So and I know in the market who comes into my shop, which parawing is for who?

Daniel Paronetto (1:06:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, everybody's gonna launch something. Yeah, everybody's gonna.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:06:25)
You know, they're not exactly the same. And I think there can be tweaks in all of them, right? And eventually there will be. But I was worried that if it was a little bit too much get up and go and pack away and go downwind, we might lose the enthusiasm of some people that are looking for a pair of with a little bit more performance, right? You can have that. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Daniel Paronetto (1:06:25)
Yeah.

Mm.

coming from a winging background or something like that.

And that's a huge market, isn't it? People who wing, probably the biggest market that will get into pair winging. I think what you're saying is super important for the brands out there because if you launch today an all-rounder, you're gonna win. And if you launch like a downwind version or like you're doing something, a niche version of a parawing on an inside a niche already, which is super small.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:06:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:07:15)
So you kind of have to go a little bit all around at the start. And I think as the years go by, then sure, you'll have your downwind version. You might have, you know, whatever version, like a freestyle version, and then start exploring the different variations there. yeah, look, it's, did you see that F1 parrowing?

Kite Puerto Rico (1:07:22)
Yeah.

I, yeah, this.

yeah, I saw

it live in the flesh.

Daniel Paronetto (1:07:40)
What? I didn't understand it though. Is it meant to be used? Is it a freestyle thing? Is it like more of a...

Kite Puerto Rico (1:07:44)
Bye.

No, it's a wave. It's more of like a wave riding thing. Yeah, so. I mean, I was I was in Mexico and the F1 guys were there, just like one of the the main North American kind of distribution. And he was. I don't know if he was super sure of what it was for. But there I think it's called the plum, something like that.

Daniel Paronetto (1:07:50)
wave.

Yeah

Kite Puerto Rico (1:08:15)
So

it's an inflated, whoever doesn't know, it's like an inflated, just an inflated leading edge. It's got, is it a vertical bar or is it horizontal? I think it's still a vertical bar. No? I don't know, I can't remember.

Daniel Paronetto (1:08:18)
Hmm.

I saw a video and I think the video

got taken out of down from YouTube. I couldn't find it anymore.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:08:34)
Anyway, it's What he was saying is that it's yeah, you've you can go really well upwind. It's very minimal Super light and if you want a wave ride, you can just like you flip it over You know how you hold a kite in the wind on the beach You hold it upside down like that and you can surf and it's very minimal drag You know, I I don't know They said it was maybe less drag than a wing because it's not it's not actually trying to engage unless it's flipped over and catching wind

Daniel Paronetto (1:08:41)
Mm.

Minimal drag, it's super draggy. Like I feel a drag when I'm

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:09:03)
Look, I don't know, but the more toys we have options to play with, the merrier, right?

Daniel Paronetto (1:09:08)
I'm super curious to

try it and see what, like where.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:09:12)
I mean, I'm not going to.

I don't know if they're trying to do the upwind upwind deflate, you know, maybe it's less material, it's lighter. I don't know, because they were F1 was really into the upwind downwind, like the deflate downwind thing, right? They even made like a specific backpack for it. Like Manero was really early on trying to figure that out because people were doing upwinders and downwinders with the SUP.

Daniel Paronetto (1:09:17)
Mmm.

It's yeah, I'm, for me.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, could be. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:09:41)
with their wings. So I think maybe before the para wing was a thing, they were working on this minimalistic inflatable kite that was able to go upwind just as well as a wing or better. That's lighter weight, less material, less handles. And you just go up and like deflate it, pack down, goes in your backpack and then you paddle it up. I don't know. I'm just making shit up.

Daniel Paronetto (1:10:03)
Probably easier to re-inflate as well if you need to with a little hand pump or something.

Yeah, well I'm curious about it man. mean like you, I didn't understand it when I saw it because I said, well that's not a parawing. That's not what the parawing is meant to do. Like I think that the getting rid of the parawing is a huge feature of it, but it could be something.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:10:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, but I think it's because we're so focused on the pair-wing and what it can do

in its packability that we're just not understanding what it's made for. Because it's not a pair-wing, you know? It's not meant to be packable and downwindable. I don't know what it's for, but time will tell, I guess.

Daniel Paronetto (1:10:33)
Yeah. It's not.

If anyone from

F1 is hearing this, send us a message about what the focus was. We're keen to try. But anyway, I like the innovation and I do commend all the brands that are putting money and time into this because it just helps us, man. It's just, it's going to be so interesting to see where this goes when, you know, all the wingers get into it. Hood River this year is going to go off, I think with pair wings everywhere.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:10:46)
What's the plum for?

Yeah,

yeah, I mean, there's only a handful of us that are doing it around here and we've got leftovers from, you know, what I ordered and what our core kind of downwind crew has ordered. And that has kind of been distributed between us and then what are what people could order flows and get them in early enough. So I'm curious to see how how it is in our market, especially it's pretty small, but to see how it how it goes and what people think of it and.

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:20)
Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:11:38)
if they really capture what it's for or they use it for their own, you know, what their purpose is, right? Because time will tell what the market really wants to do with it, right? Because essentially, you know, when I talked to Greg, the BRM was to surf waves. It was not to go, it was not, yeah, it was not made to, he wasn't making it to do downwinders. He wasn't a downwinder.

Daniel Paronetto (1:11:45)
Yep.

Mm-hmm.

And it's still probably the best one to do that.

Mmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:12:06)
He

was making it to go out from the waves in Ka and surf the waves with as little drag as possible and pop it back up and go back, right? The moment that it launched, I went on a downwinder and there's six downwinders there that have the BRM and they're like, we're using this to downwind, right? They didn't even think about going upwind. They didn't even want to ride it. Some of might not even be wingers, right? It was a downwind device.

Daniel Paronetto (1:12:11)
Mm-hmm.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:12:35)
Right? So right there and then people decided what they wanted to use it for versus what it was the purpose of it was designed for essentially, which is interesting.

Daniel Paronetto (1:12:45)
What do you think of like accessories that we have right now in power winging, for example, the belt. I freaking hate the belt. I don't think it's a good solution yet for, for stowing the parawing quickly. Like I think it takes a little time for you to get everything in the belt. When you put it in the belt, it never comes out, you know, in a good shape for it to redeploy or.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:12:55)
Yeah, the

Yeah, I've

Yeah, I've never, you know, I think also it depends on background, right? People that are coming into this that are not downwinders that eventually will get into downwinding because of this, because of how hard it is to paddle. You know, that has that that's going to it's really hard to like get up, pack it away and concentrate on downwinding at the same time you're trying to hold this thing, right? And then you're trying to pack it away. I think it's a little bit more advanced.

Daniel Paronetto (1:13:17)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So much. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:13:42)
Right? So I think people just shoving into their shirt is their best option because they're like, okay, I'm up on foil, shove it in their shirt, and now I'm downwinding. For me, I get up, I collapse it, I start my downwinder, I grab it, you know, I put it in a little bag, I put the bar in it, I roll it up, I take my backpack off, I shove it in my backpack, I put my backpack back on, and I'm downwinding. You know? And they're like, they're like, like, why would you do that? And I was like, well, because once I'm on foil downwinding, that's it. That's all I need. And then I...

Daniel Paronetto (1:14:03)
Yeah, but it's not that easy. Yep.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:14:12)
I could do whatever, you So I think...

Daniel Paronetto (1:14:13)
But you're at a level of

down-winding coming from that background that you can, you know, relax a little bit about reading the bumps and all that stuff, which is, takes a little time.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:14:19)
Yeah, exactly.

So I think

none of these solutions are really great at the moment. The best that people are thinking of is an easy solution for a beginner that wants to catch their bearings on foil is just shoving it under their shirt. I think that's way easier than shoving it in that kangaroo pouch that has these clips on it. I never got one because I never found it to be a solution for me.

Daniel Paronetto (1:14:37)
Mm-hmm.

clips and yeah.

Yeah, I got one and I use it today mainly to have a second pair of with me when I'm out there, like you have your backpack. But if I'm doing upwind, downwinds, which is what I'm using it mainly for, of stop doing long, stop this and like, I don't need to do the car shuttles anymore. And it's easier for me to do a quick session, um, do upwind, downwinds and hit a little spot that, you know, the bumps pick up a bit. I don't stow it all the way either. I just hold it.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:14:52)
and how I wanted to use it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:15:21)
And it's, get like, you know, 80, 90 % success with my redeploys that way versus stowing it and just getting out and it's all a mess after you get it in the belt.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:15:31)
Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's going to be a mess either way. Potentially.

Daniel Paronetto (1:15:36)
It is potentially, there's always the potential

for, for mess, but I heard that ozone is coming up with a different style of belt as well, which has kind of an expandable material, a little bit more flexy material, uh, rather than that neoprene and the plastic kind of rigid, um, back to the belt. It's going to be something that might help a little bit with the stove and keen to see. haven't seen it on the website yet. I checked it the other day to see if it's up there yet, but I haven't, I haven't seen it. Sinbad told me that they have something cool coming up.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:15:57)
Yeah.

Yeah, think

I'm sure she would know. I'm sure she's got some influence on that. Yeah, North is going to come out with a belt. It's also a little bit different, and it's combined with a like a wing like you can use it to hook in as well. So it's going to have a hook on it. Hope. Yeah, you should have that. So you've got a hook on it. Hopefully it's going to have a spot for a kite knife.

Daniel Paronetto (1:16:07)
Yeah.

100%.

Mm-hmm.

Nice. I think that's natural, right? You need, you should have that in there. Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:16:31)
because you're adding all these lines around you, you're falling in it. I think it's a no-brainer to have a kite knife now if you're going out. So hopefully that's a good addition.

Daniel Paronetto (1:16:32)
knife.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Will it have somewhere to...

Will it have somewhere to clip on a leash as well so you don't have to use a waste leash or like it would be the one solution where you don't have to have another...

Kite Puerto Rico (1:16:53)
Yeah, yeah, there's a spot to put your leash as well. Yeah, but most of it's like all of these ones you're turning around. either like putting it here and then you're putting it there. So there's only certain amount of options you can have. If you're going to keep spinning it around and your leash is on your waist, I don't know.

Daniel Paronetto (1:16:57)
Yeah, cool. I think that's helpful.

Mmm.

use the Calhi leashes and they have the little carabiner. if like I'm, yeah, I can clip it on and off. And I think that's kind of a quick fast solution. Like it's easy to unclip and clip it on if you need to. Dude, is there anything that we need to talk? I want to talk to you about boards before we wrap this up because you, are you right?

Kite Puerto Rico (1:17:16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you just clip it on.

Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know.

Yeah. I mean, there's

so much that we could talk about. I'm sure we messed all this up.

Daniel Paronetto (1:17:39)
I'm gonna make this very...

dude, I had three words here before the chat. Intro, uses, technique, gear, and board. That's all I had prepared. But we have enough to talk about. think I'm coming at this from a very personal point of view because I'm looking to get a parrying specific board for myself and I want to know what you're riding. What's like the, and thinking about the smallest board that you're able to ride and what does it look like.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:17:52)
Yeah. I had nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah, so right now I'm on a Super K from KT. I started with a 70 liter because I just wanted to make it easier on me. I don't ride a foil that's over a 900 typically. So 900 is the biggest foil I've ever used with a parawing. And so I'm typically on the 770R, the 850S, and then a 750 from North, their downwind foil, which is really good.

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:16)
Awesome board.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:18:41)
So I'm on smaller foils. so I started with a 70 liter to get a little bit more float out of it. I'm currently 80 kilos, I think. And then once I had a couple sessions under my belt, I went down to the 60 liter. So I'm on a 60. And it's great because I just keep that in my van. If I want to wing it, it's not too big. Para-winging, it's perfect.

Daniel Paronetto (1:18:53)
Mm-hmm.

Ah, you're going to 60, nice.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:19:11)
It's a good size. And don't know what the ideal board would be. That's just what I'm using because that's what I've got. Like I said, I'm not super specific about what I write all the time and I'm typically left with whatever's left over in the shop if I haven't sold it.

Daniel Paronetto (1:19:20)
Mm-hmm.

Are you spoiled though because you Kate that super case and sick board man

Kite Puerto Rico (1:19:34)
Yeah, yeah, the super case. Great.

So I was lucky enough that I did have leftover inventory of the 60 and I'm like, should I open it? Should I not? I'm like, I'll just stick with the 70. Then someone came into the shop. They're like, I want the 70. But you have a discount. like, well, I'll sell you my used one. So I took it out of the van, sold the 70 and then I'm like, OK, I'll take a 60, you know, so I'm writing this.

Daniel Paronetto (1:19:49)
yeah, perfect.

How much

wind do you need to get up on that 60 litre?

Kite Puerto Rico (1:19:57)
So my biggest parawing is the North, it's the 4.2 and I can get up on the 7.70 in 14 knots, 13-14 knots. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:20:07)
That's awesome, man. That's not much.

I think I'd struggle on the 4.2 flow because maybe of that bottom end that you were talking about in 15 knots, I don't think I can get it up on a small board. Yeah, still good. Still very good, man. I need to work on my sinker technique. Well, not necessarily a full sinker, but yeah. Tell us about it.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:20:18)
Yeah, so with the flow I need like 16 knots with that thing.

Yeah.

It's all in the legs. It's

all like, it's just, you just gotta finesse it and feather your board, just little pumps. And there's one point that you start to feel it release. You know, you can go downwind a little bit with the parawing and you kind of like let it get into the wind. you do that too early, then you're just left with no power. So you kind of hold it tight. You're trying to get up cross wind, not up wind. And you're kind of like...

Daniel Paronetto (1:20:44)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:21:00)
You just slowly like pump your board and you just give it like little like feathers and trying to like sink the back tail and letting it release and let it release. And the moment you feel like you're gaining a little bit of speed, you kind of veer off downwind. It catches some wind and you kind of. Pull on it again and just take off.

Daniel Paronetto (1:21:07)
Mm-hmm.

Nice.

It is very sensitive that that feeling of when you start to engage the foil pumping, you know, like a sensitive pump, you don't want to punch through the water. Otherwise you just lose all your momentum. And when you're starting out those techniques, man, with a parowing that you're trying to fly, they can be challenging. So I think people that just get a pair and go out fly in the land for I stay like I'm on the beach.

practicing tacks on it for like, for a long time, just after my session, before my session.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:21:52)
You can

tell everybody that they're not going to do it. I do the same. I've been teaching lessons for 15 years and they're like, man, I don't really have the money and I can't keep taking lessons. I'm like, dude, just go buy this kite because you're going to buy it anyway. Go fly it on the beach for six hours. Drag yourself through the water. Just fly it on the beach. You do six hours of kite flying for free.

Daniel Paronetto (1:21:56)
Why though?

Mm.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:22:20)
You know, you're already an independent. You can fly the kite. You can't ride the board, but you can fly the kite. Just go do it for free. Do it an hour a day, you know? And then you go there. I go out there. The next day I go out and they're like. They're like crashing the kite around with the board, trying to put the board on and I'm like, bro, I'm like, come on, like just fly the kite for a second. It's.

Daniel Paronetto (1:22:29)
you better so much quicker.

fly the kite, you need to understand it. it's so

much of the power winging and kiting experience to learn the kite. Because sure, you're gonna get up. Let's say this guy gets up, he'll go 100 meters and then he's gonna what have try a jibe and not make it. No.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:22:56)
Yeah, yeah, Fail,

body drag for an hour, not know how to get frustrated because you're not riding the board. But essentially you shouldn't be riding the board if you don't know how to fly a kite properly, right? Or you don't feel comfortable. And it's the same with, you know, the winging, the parawinging. Yeah, just spend time on the beach and spend time dragging on your knees, going back and forth. If you're not on foil, you're still learning something, you know, like.

Daniel Paronetto (1:23:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:23:21)
I think people are too worried and they want to get somewhere so quickly because they see everybody else doing it. They're like, this is what I should be doing. You're like, I should be foiling with a parawing upwind. You're like, cool. Maybe in two weeks, maybe three weeks, maybe four weeks if you're going to do it every day. But they expect to do it right away. And then there's frustration. They're like, oh, this sport's stupid. I just don't.

Daniel Paronetto (1:23:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:23:44)
You know, there's all these lines that got tangled around me and then the bar got tangled and they're like, you're in the water and how do you get the water out? And you're like, well, you didn't spend five minutes just thinking about it, you know, because and that's how these people get so good, right? That's how you get so good. That's how all of these guys like Cynbad and all these people that are like leading the charge in this parawinging thing is because they understand how hard it is and how much time you have to dedicate to all the nuances of what makes it as easy as possible.

Daniel Paronetto (1:23:55)
Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:24:14)
Right? Like I go out there and I suffer. I had horrible sessions in Hood River. I went out in almost no wind. I went four miles floated to the other side. You know, I went from Washington to Oregon, you know, and ended up in like like grass that was like neck high. And I had two pair wings that were like slipping out of that kangaroo pouch. And it was horrible. And I was like, oh, my God, not doing that again. And then I went and did it the next day. But but, know, you

Daniel Paronetto (1:24:27)
Yeah, crossing states.

Mm-mm.

Ate it again. But you're in the position where you're also one of the pioneers, dude. You're one of the people that are trying, experimenting. Where is the potential in this? And I think for you, still put yourself in those positions. But people can learn from your experience. And that's the thing that is, I think, where you're getting at. For example, was trying tax and stuff. I was on the beach. And I would just be doing tax.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:24:44)
Yeah, but you you got to understand that I

Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:25:12)
walking up wind and simulating the movement and getting that muscle memory down because the tack on the parawing is something that happens so fast compared to a kite. And I'm like, oh, this is gonna be easy. And the first time I tried it, it just got yarded back, had horrible fall. And I don't know why, like I cut my foot, it was horrible on the tail. And then I'm like, okay, so let's go to the land, understand.

where my hands will be, where my pressure will be on the bar. And then it started to come together. And then when you throw it on the water, I threw it on the water in 15 knots, you know, on the light wind day. And then to gain that confidence to when it's like 25 knots, yeah, I can chuck it and try to get onto a wave. Cool, but that doesn't come the first day. How are you doing your tacks? I saw a video that you did a beautiful tacks, foot switch, it textbook.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:26:00)
Yeah.

I don't know. just just comes to me, you know. So I'm not sure what I'm doing. I'm going heel side first, coming in goofy. So left foot forward. And I'm just when I'm when I'm going with the wing, I just grab it underneath with this hand like this way. And I just try not to.

Daniel Paronetto (1:26:09)
Yes, that's what I wanna do.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:26:35)
put too much pressure on the backhand so it doesn't stall and I just try to fly it through the window and then I put a little bit of pressure on the backhand so it'll pivot. And once it pivots and you, yeah, because if not, yeah, so you can't like just go into it and then come around the other side, the wing just will stay going the same direction. So you've got to kind of get it over your head and almost pivot it so it turns the other way first and then you make your way around and it'll just follow you as the tension engages, it'll start flying the other way.

Daniel Paronetto (1:26:44)
because it needs to turn, right? The pressure on the back makes it turn.

Mm.

How do you get the power, know, finish your thought.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:27:05)
Right as long as...

Yes, I mean it just like from kiting, right? It's like wherever that leading edge is pointing is where it's going to fly, right? Always. So if it's only pointing this way, it doesn't matter you're going that way. It won't follow you, you know, so you've always got to get it up and over, get it pointing that way. And then once you come around the other side, you've got a little bit of lift and it doesn't matter. It won't take off yet because it won't be faster than you because you're coming around pretty quick and then it'll start to fly that way.

Daniel Paronetto (1:27:23)
That.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:27:39)
And once you engage tension and you're coming out the other way, it'll start to fly and it'll cross over. And then you've got your power again.

Daniel Paronetto (1:27:45)
I felt it hard that last little

30 % of the trick. I spent a lot of time just touching down and not staying on foil. was struggling to get power speed.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:27:51)
It's.

Speed. Speed is your friend. Just

go into everything faster. If you go in fast, you're gonna come out with speed. The problem is that if you go into anything too slow, you're not left with anything, right? You can't gain speed through a turn when you're already going into it slow. It's hard. When you come out the other side...

Daniel Paronetto (1:28:12)
Mm-hmm.

And you can on a wing, right?

Because the wing, if you're riding the wing, it kind of has that immediate power that you can kind of pump the wing and like make it work out of attack. But that's a great tip. The speed that you get into it allows you to then gain tension on the lines again on the paring, the paring engages again, and then boom, you know, once it's on, it's, powerful. It's pulling again.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:28:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Just have to make sure also when you're turning all the way around that you turn again back to where you're going. You can't be pointing too much upwind. With the wing you can just like you can tack around and you're like you're angled upwind already to like engage the wing and you're going upwind versus this one if you go too far upwind you'll lose your speed because the wing doesn't have that much of an angle.

Daniel Paronetto (1:28:53)
Yeah, you can make it sloppy.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:29:05)
the

para wing and it doesn't have that much power, so it's got to reengage. You have to gain some momentum and speed and then you can cut your angle back upwind. So it's just like, yeah, yeah, little nuances and it just takes time and practice and you just have to be under the wing to feel it. And then if you try to break it down, sure, I've never really tried to break it down. I've told people how to tack, it's, I'm like, just go fast.

Daniel Paronetto (1:29:12)
Yeah, a sharper turn, faster. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:29:30)
Just go fast and pray.

Daniel Paronetto (1:29:34)
Yep. dude, I'd

love this Chapman. are there anything, any other points that you feel we need to touch on? I always like to talk about safety. did a little bit, with losing pair of wings and, leashes and stuff. I not a leash advocate, but anything else you want to talk about?

Kite Puerto Rico (1:29:45)
Yeah.

I think, yeah, I think,

I think as long as you have a release on your leash, you know, you have a safety release, which some do. If you feel more comfortable having one and you feel you want to be connected to it, you know, I've I've had some of the North riders that got the early pair wings, they leashed them to it because they wanted to be leashed to it. And I think they were also scared of losing the parawing from from my experience. But they're like, oh, so now you're going to wear a leash. I'm like, no, definitely not going to wear a leash.

Daniel Paronetto (1:30:12)
after your story.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:30:19)
I think, you know, in all of these sports, you just have to be aware of the risk that's involved and, you know, how far you're going out and what kind of a mess you can get yourself into. When you're surfing waves with a parawing and lines and a parachute that can sink and wrap around you, you've just got to be prepared and stay calm, you know, especially with the wing, you've got a flotation device. With your board, you've got a flotation device, right? So, with the parawing, it's...

Daniel Paronetto (1:30:38)
Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:30:49)
It's not as safe as going out on a wing because it can sink, it's not loaded all the time, it's not a safety device in that aspect when it's in the water, and there's lots of lines that can get around you. At least the lines are short. Yeah. So I would just, I just wouldn't be worried about losing a parawing, you know? It's better to be safe than to, you know, jump into your parawing

Daniel Paronetto (1:30:51)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Probably the opposite becomes kind of a hazard, something that will enhance the sucking experience.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:31:14)
You know, to save it, you're like, oh, there's my parawing goes and jump into it or something to get tangled in the lines and find yourself in a scary situation that you can't handle in the water. Being in the water is dangerous in general, even if you're a swimmer. Forget about adding lines and a parachute and a leash and a foil and waves, Like just swimming. Yeah, so everyone that's getting into this, I wouldn't be scared of it.

Daniel Paronetto (1:31:16)
Mm.

It's amazing we don't get more hurt to be honest, yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:31:42)
Take your own precautions. If you're a little bit more worried, then take extra precautions. Wear a life jacket, wear a helmet, take a knife with you. Have I done that? No. Should I? Sure. But it's all like your risk tolerance, And situations that have happened to you or haven't happened to you yet. So once something like that happens to me, I'm like, shit, I'm definitely taking a knife with me every time. Like getting tangled around the ankles in a set wave.

Daniel Paronetto (1:32:02)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:32:11)
disaster, right? So.

Daniel Paronetto (1:32:13)
I think the guys

in Maui are doing that now. They have little kite knives on them.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:32:15)
Yeah, I'd assume so. Like it's just

not a bad idea. It's this small, you know, although the parawing can tangle on it, you know. Yeah. And then picking your parawing, think if you're getting into it, they're all going to work and they all have little specifications and my preference might not be your preference.

Daniel Paronetto (1:32:21)
Yeah.

Tangle is the thing, isn't it? What can't it tangle on?

Hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:32:44)
And one parawing might be easier for straight downwinding versus one is better for tacking You know and those are just nuances that you have to figure out if you're that specific Then you should do your research and test it and figure out what's for you But if not and you're not a pair winger and you're not sure which one to get don't think it really matters, you know like then grab a BRM grab this like German born wave start like it works great

Daniel Paronetto (1:33:03)
I don't either. They all work, man.

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:33:12)
You

know, they all work and then once you be more proficient in it, then you can start specifying of what parawing you want to use in what conditions. Because I know what parawing I want to use right now, you know, when it's blowing this much wind and this is what I'm going to do with it. You know, if I'm going to go downwind, I want ease of getting up on foil and I'm not scared of how much power I want to hold down or I don't want to be underpowered, I'm definitely taking the north. If I want to wing around, I have obstacles to get out of and I want to...

Daniel Paronetto (1:33:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:33:41)
go upwind a little bit or have a little bit more performance because I want to race my friends or something, then yeah, I'm to take the flow. I'm lucky enough to have that opportunity to have all of these pair wings on my shelf. But in the end, whoever your local distributor is and whoever you can get a parawing from, buy it from them. Yeah. The one that's in your shop because they can support you.

Daniel Paronetto (1:33:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That's the best parawing, isn't it? The closest one to you. agree, And

they will all change so much in the next six months. Whatever you get now is going to not be the best parawing anyway. Tomorrow. You know what I mean? Like, get one, just start doing this sport because it does open up a lot. I feel like you can have the kite.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:34:19)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (1:34:28)
foiling experience, the winging experience, even the prone, surfing waves, and obviously doing the downwind. So I think it does it all, I think this year is just gonna be mental what people are gonna be doing with this stuff.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:34:42)
Yeah, I'm stoked that North we held out just a little bit to up the performance a little bit, but still not wait too long to feel like it's the best parawing on the market because then we'd be left out. I'm glad that we're in the mix with all of these other brands coming out with all of these different pair of wings and the market can decide what they want.

Daniel Paronetto (1:34:47)
Mm.

yet.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:35:07)
What's the

closest? What's the most accessible? What's the cheapest? What's the most expensive? And what kind of performance they want out of it. And then the V2s that are coming out that everyone's essentially working on, because now we have the time. can like, you can breathe for a second. We've got pair wings. They're going to be here mid-April. Mid-April, everyone's going to have more pair wings than they need. Trust me, I ordered way too many.

Daniel Paronetto (1:35:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Relax.

Yeah, true.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:35:33)
It's just, I'm just way too excited. I'm like, I hope

Daniel Paronetto (1:35:33)
I love her.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:35:36)
it explodes and I hope it's going to do what I want it to do, right? But then we can relax a little bit and be like, okay, let's dial this down and let's figure out, you know, let's tweak every little aspect to make it as perfect as we can. Cause now we have the time to do that as everyone fools around with all these beautiful products that we already have. Right? If that makes sense.

Daniel Paronetto (1:35:39)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm. And like

you said, you're very close to North and, I think a big part of design and the design process is to be close to the customer and understand their feedback and what they want. Like is, being close to kite drops like you, their way to do that and get feedback from customers. Do you hear that from them a lot?

Kite Puerto Rico (1:36:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, I

I think the reason why I'm integrated with them and I am good for them is because I am the shop, right? I am the shop, I am the customer, and I deal with my customers all day long. So I know what's happening out and I know what brands people are buying and I'm on the ground floor because I'm just a foil frother like everybody else. But then I have to be the shop, but also, you know, I'm

Daniel Paronetto (1:36:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:36:44)
want to be part of the design and I'm, you know, part of like, so I'm, really layered in there. I'm like the sales force all the way down to the customer on the ground floor. And also I get to do this, right? I get to talk to you. I do podcasts and I know, you know, this foil environment and I know what kind of trends are happening. I hope I can, because I want to keep my pulse on it. And that's why I feel like it's, it's really cool to also be part of that part with them to see what their inner unit feels like and what their design process looks like.

Daniel Paronetto (1:36:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, 100%.

Mm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:37:14)
versus what I would do. And it's always going to be a little bit different. Every company and designers and then corporations and then CEO and you have to go to factories. If I would do it my way, then I would do what Greg does. You wouldn't have to go through all of these layers to finally launch a unit. But it's nice to see that.

Daniel Paronetto (1:37:16)
Mm-hmm.

There's a lot, yeah. Yeah. Sell direct.

Hmm. Hmm. And with big brands like North,

it's like, it really depends how much time they can put on it, depending on how the winging market is going. The kite surfing market is just a lot to consider that we don't even think about.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:37:50)
It's

a lot, but I'm super stoked that they had a really big focus on this. It was essentially beforehand, it was like a side project. like, we've got this thing that we, this rescue tow device. And they didn't even know what they had in front of their eyes, right? Because there's so much going on. There's still such a new brand that's doing so much in the kite market, trying to lead in the kite and the big air.

Daniel Paronetto (1:37:57)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:38:20)
and then trying to lead in the winging and the foiling and then downwinding and like then this para wing thing comes along. I mean, it's essentially been their DNA from the beginning. They launched as a kite company. They're like, hey, let's do this right from ground zero. They're like, let's go. And then as they're trying to launch a brand new kite company, foiling comes along. They're like, yeah, but you got to do this, too. They're like, shit.

Daniel Paronetto (1:38:29)
Yeah.

Yep.

That's, mean, that's so

hard as a brand man to still move as fast as a startup being established like that takes such good like internal culture. And yeah, that's awesome to hear from them. And yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:38:54)
Excitement.

like and but like you go to any brand, everybody's just as excited, right? You're like, but North is the most excited. Like I hear, you know, the brand manager. I hate I hear Mike Raper talking. You can't get him to shut up. You know, he's just like he just like he's like at you with this. I'm like, damn, I'm like, that guy is excited. Like, I can't believe it. And then you, you know, you go to the next brand.

Daniel Paronetto (1:39:02)
Mm.

Energy. Yeah.

Yep.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:39:22)
And you listen to their story and you're like, fuck, that guy's excited too. You know? And then you listen to this one, you're like, goddamn, like how many people can be that, like to the core, believe in their product and believe in what they're doing and want to grow and expand? it's kind of silly and like, thank God, lucky us that we have these like, these people, you know, on the top with money and then funding and then factories and figuring out the packaging and...

Daniel Paronetto (1:39:25)
Mmm. That's so cool, Yeah. Yeah.

Mm. Mm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:39:52)
blah, blah, blah, and then we get to swipe our credit card and get this unit. Yeah, you're like, it doesn't go up in great and then the leading edge does this and you're like, yeah. There's just like the inner workings are just insane. It's crazy to be, I'm not even part of it. I'm just tapped in because I want to be. They've got me on a huge salary.

Daniel Paronetto (1:39:52)
god.

talk about it and say it doesn't work that well like yeah there's a little flatter here like shut up dude

Mmm.

Yeah, that's awesome, dude.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:40:21)
I'm kidding. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. No, but.

Daniel Paronetto (1:40:23)
six figure salary. We'll talk about that later off camera. Do we need to do this

every six months or so? Cause I think the pariwinging six months will be very different from what we're talking about now.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:40:34)
Parawings gonna be a thing of the past in six months my friend. We're gonna be on we're gonna be on plums

Daniel Paronetto (1:40:37)
They'll be like, nah, I was a fad. Yeah. Well, like, I really want

to see if I can get someone from F1 to talk about that plum and understand it little more. Like we have to try it, right? if we, once we fly it, we might just say, okay, this is it. I, to me, I, it's still possibly a freestyle thing, but then you said waves. We'll see, man. It's just.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:40:50)
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.

Yeah. I don't know.

Just give it to a radiculo and he'll turn it into a freestyle thing. I think he's flown it. He told me he's flown it already. Yeah. I can't remember. was like we text back and forth here and there. I posted a video or something of it. I'm like, what the hell is this? What are they thinking? I'm like, I generally want to know what they're thinking.

Daniel Paronetto (1:41:03)
Yeah.

yeah? What'd say?

Yeah.

Mmm.

Mm.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:41:24)
He's like, man, he sent me a voice note, think. He's like, I tried it. It's pretty interesting. It's really light. It goes up wind really well. It doesn't have much low end. then I could actually do a backflip with it. I'm like, yeah, I'm not surprised.

Daniel Paronetto (1:41:35)
fuck it. He's crazy, man. The stuff that

he does and just the ease of just being inverted is just next level.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:41:43)
Yeah, yeah, it's kind

of crazy. Yeah, but yeah, we can definitely do this again. I think there's there's a lot to talk about and I know I know there are instructional videos and stuff out there. I haven't watched any of them. I've only watched one of your videos when you compared the BRM to the flow, but I'm not watching these things, but I think there are, you know, some things that people would want to know more like tech tip things.

Daniel Paronetto (1:41:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:42:12)
And then

a podcast is a good way to do it because people, you know, they're not always sitting in front of their computer watching things. When they really want to figure something out, they're specifics and watching tidbits. But then they're sitting in their car listening to podcasts and there's a lot of information that I think is really insightful from somebody that's been doing pair winging so much and using so many different brands and what little tips and tricks make a make a big difference. And I'm sure it's all out there.

Daniel Paronetto (1:42:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:42:40)
But if you want to compile it all into one section, might make sense. So that people have this one episode of like, this is what you need. And I don't know if there's actually a audio podcast about it because really, on my podcast, I just talk a bunch of crap. And we have like in this, we have a bunch of great information in there, but you got to listen to what is that? An hour and 40 minutes of whatever it is. And there's some good stuff in there.

Daniel Paronetto (1:42:43)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

to you. God. Yeah.

Yeah,

Kite Puerto Rico (1:43:09)
You gotta find it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Daniel Paronetto (1:43:09)
just stick through it. You'll find some nuggets in there, hopefully. All right, dude, look, let's wrap it up then, because we don't want to hit the two hour mark on this, but it's been epic talking to you. Thanks for just being open as well. You had no idea who I was. So you just like, yep, dude, let's talk, whatever. I'm happy to do it. And that's the froth we need, Yeah, same here. Same here, dude.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:43:24)
Yeah.

Any any any pair of winger is a friend of mine, you know For sure. Go man. Yeah, it's

been great. Thanks for having me on your show and maybe this will be my show too. We don't know but I'm glad I glad you linked us up and we got to sit down and do this for sure

Daniel Paronetto (1:43:41)
Mmm.

Sounds good man. Next time we talk we'll have Walt with us, get more banter going. Thanks, Dill. More specificity. Alright, cheers brother.

Kite Puerto Rico (1:43:50)
Yep. For sure. Less, less, if we want less banter.

Cheers boys.

005_Dylan Shewfelt: From The X-Foils Podcast

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